OK I have rolled in loads of your comments from the second draft, many thanks to all those who took the time to write.
The main change this time is structural - on the web for starters, but now broken down into sections with guidance as to which bit might be suitable for the different levels of reader in the summary at the start.
(And yes, for those of you with short attention spans I have trimmed some words from some sections)
A couple of new bits added (mainly the SDS drill section).
Still need contributions for the Tool Type sections at the end.
Brands, brands, brands. If I were a total newbie to the world of power tools, if the brand Im thinking of buying isnt listed, I wouldnt have a clue what quality it was. We need a /thorough/ list of brands. Kinzo, challenge, dremel, axminster, every make there is. Without that, it just wont answer peoples questions. If kinzo isnt on there, they might think kinzo are decent and buy.
How bout a 4th section for the rock bottom stuff, ie power devil, kinzo. They do seem to distinguish themselves from the other ordinary budget stuff.
how does one replacement turn into frequent trips? One trip normally, maybe 2. Any intermediate comms I'd do by phone.
often cheaper than budget ones
_way_ cheaper. So cheap as to make them worth buying when you wouldnt buy new. Prime buying sources are car boot sales, the tip, local papers, and dodgy looking shops.
no, you get everything used, from top quality to wth-is-that. The difference is that the range goes much lower down the scale than new, ie you really can get stuff so bad no sensible person would buy it.
features that are standard on current ones though (like a blade guard on a circular saw for example).
Too imprecise. Most used tools are fine safety wise, but circ saws should be regarded with real caution.
Ensure used circs have: riving knife automatic full blade cover that self retracts otherwise just dont buy them.
Also note that anything with a plain steel tipped blade is going to perform poorly. Expect a mere fraction of the feed rate, even with freshly sharpened teeth. Used circs I would think twice about, but other goods, no problem.
There is one other but: when using metal bodied drills into a wall, I wear gloves. Its not as bad a safety issue some fear it to be, since you are protected from electrocution if you hit a live wire, but for the sake of 10 seconds its better to have the same level of safety you get with new plastic drills.
Realise a lot of readers will be already using old tools, and not sure whether to use them or replace, so used tools is a significant section for lots of buyers.
A brief list of pros and cons would be good.
Take drills, the most comon old tool:
No soft start means the drill bit jumps when power switched on. No speed control makes it no use for screwing, and hard to avoid bit wander.
200w motor (vs500-800) means inadequate torque on large bit jobs, but makes no difference for most work. No hammer action means it wont drill concrete or some harder bricks. But theyre still ok for lots of jobs, ie most drilling, sanding, and smaller lathe jobs.
Be aware that if you find one, you can generally get a much better used tool for the same money as a new one. There arent a lot of high quality used tools around, but they do exist, and are frequently bargainous, and better quality than buying new midrange or budget. Used tools have very much longer life on average than budget new. There are loads of 30 yr old B&D drills still about, I doubt there will be any power devils in 30 yrs. A chap I talked to had a boss that bought power devil tools for a commercial site, they lasted an average of 1 month.
("vibration" might be better),
it is hammer action, just not much energy or speed behind it due to the crude mechanism. Maybe better described as light hammering, but still enough to do quite a lot with.
of your screwstation catalogue then all bets are off, but it might make a nice dumbbell!
needs rewriting to be constructive rather than just humorous.
another SDS downside: price, and with cheap models, excessive weight.
budget jigsaws: poeple need to realise you cant use a straight guide edge with them, very common mistake, the blade quickly bends over, ruining th workpiece, then breaks.
codless: the buying public doesnt seem to undertsand the differences, need explaining. Dont think youve really tackled the issues there fully. What you say is right for the good q stuff, but reality is that most folk are buying from Argos and sheds, so they need to understand what theyre getting.
Yup can add more brands certainly... Assuming we are happy that a list of this type is the way to go.
Could do, not sure is needs a section of its own or perhaps just some more detailed notes on the speread of quality.
Yup, I shall reword that... my thinking was that if you are using it hard enough for it to need replacement then then is a fair chance it will need it more than once in a three year period.
Sources are worth including... and also perhaps a warning of the issues regarding top brand "trade" kit for knock down prices from somone you met in the pub etc.
I think perhaps I should make that less precise still, and then add specific mention of the problems of age for various tools to their own sections. Otherwise it looks like we are singling out just circular saws here. (add a note to point readers at the particular sections)
and works without sticking...
RCDs become all the more important.
Thinking about it RFI is another issue with old drills ...
To an extent this is repating the flip side of stuff already in there that covers what these things do...
Oddly enough I have never used a drill with soft start (I am sure they exist), but I suppose they tend to acquire variable speed triggers first which kind of negates it.
I think even my mums 30 year old B&D was 380W... Still we are talking power input here not output. Hmmm perhaps that is something to cover actually - power and why 100 NuTool Watts are not going to be the same as 100 Bosch ones.
The words false economy spring to mind ;-)
(What did he replace them with?)
Yup will add price. Weight is already mentioned (2nd Para "What to Look for")
Yup... can happen on decent ones as well if the blade has acquired any kind of bevel on one edge.
Perhaps some examples might help?
The cordless jigsaw I was once given is a nice example. 14 quid B&Q special. In theory will run on a full charge for 10 mins, the reality of that is 30 secs of full power followed by ever decreasing speed and power. Jigsaw quality is way down there as your would expect, the supplied blade was a tad light on teeth so that the motor had a chance of actually moving it. Recharging takes 14 hours. The one job I tried with it (a 9" cut in 1/2" ply on a roof) was completed.... just! (and that was it for the day)
To add another example, I bought a Homebase own brand cordless drill (already had a decent drill and cordless screwdriver). Half way through the first hole I drilled with it (through a joist, well below the quoted maximum hole size) the link between the motor and chuck shredded itself.
When I bought my 2nd power tool, I had no idea what quality any of the brands were, and kept asking 'is this brand ok?' If the brand wasnt listed, I would simply have had no idea. I seemed to think there was a possibility of getting a good tool at low price. There isnt, at least not new.
ordinary
normally,
yes, I understand.
Yes. On 2nd thoughts though, if someone cant figure that out for themselves, I doubt they should be doing diy at all.
very good point.
Careful. Many are deluding themselves with RCDs. Why?
Lots of houses have no RCD on the installation
People put an RCD on the drill imagining it will protect them if they drill a live wire. It offers NO protection against this whatever. If the user drills a live wire,
The RCD will not trip
Even if by magic it somehow tripped, it would not cut power to the live wire/user.
The only solution is plastic drills or insulating gloves.
Perhaps its a good place to put a link to a separate page explaining this.
Maybe if theyre used all day long, I would have thought it was trivial otherwise.
perhaps. But the buyer of an old tool wont really appreciate what it does and doesnt, thats what that list was to clarify, primarily what they can expect to do with it.
Yeah, I think mine's 60s.
very good point.
bargainous,
Spose it all depends where you buy them, and whether you buy ex building site stuff.
Dont laugh, but the shop gave him replacement power devils, lol. I think after about 3 rounds of this he gave up and bought midrange.
Brand in many cases is a ephemeral concept anyway. Five tools with the same label on the case may have come from five different OEMs. So making buying decisions on it can be risky. At the high end a tradesman may elect to only buy Makita. They won't be assured of getting the best example of every tool, but they will know they are going to get something that is at least good enough. That does not work so well further down the range.
(Were you thinking RSI by any chance?)
Given you will be using the drill, you may be blissfully unaware that it is wiping out TV reception for a block around....
If while putting up some shelves you manage to glitch the critical moments half a dozen times through an episode of East Enders you are probably not going to win you many friends ;-)
I would be concerned that the guard is intact and still solidly attached, and that whatever spindle lock method is employedis stillw orking well enough to tighten the nut up probably.
Though I may be over sensitive as a guy at work had a disc explode on him.
If you look in Axminster's catalogue, their brands are "White" and "Perform".
Have you ever tried getting a meaningful response from a DIY shed other than by going there?
There isn't anything that can be said about a £29.95 18v cordless drill that can be anything other *than* humorous. Surely nobody imagines that this combination could be in any way worthwhile?
or not.
The retail marketing boys have it all figured out. Volts relate to the customer's perception of the size of his willy, so obviously these products are sold on the basis of maximum volts for minimum cost.
Deviating from the topic a little, I know many people have not been that impressed with some bits of the "white" range, but from what I have seen of the perform stuff, it is not too bad. I got one of the perform bench disc & belt sanders - which I must say is actualy rather impressive for the money. Very solid construction, sensibly put together, induction motor etc. Transforms sanding into a process easily accurate and fast enough to be used as a primary form of machining, rather than just a cleaning up or finishing process. (e.g. it would be easy enough to sand perfect mitres for picture frames if wanted).
Not intentionally! I did call it ptfaq.htm to start with, went to put it in a dir called ptfaq, then thought that would make for a silly url. So created the above directory, then later thought it would be sensible to rename the entry point as index.htm to save worrying about specifying the file name at all.
A great piece John. I'm having to resort largely to typo type comments :-)
What do you mean by DIY?
quite as they would.
Down to 60:1 - but I still don't believe it for "similar looking tools". I agree the point you are making, but the figures don't ring true to me, but even if they are true, I think it may make some doubt the integrity. That's the trouble with gob-smacking statistics. Can anyone suggest an alternative phrase?
These include some brands *that* specialise in this market (see above),
This seems to contradict the first sentence.
... or give a refund.
of the quality and price range available.
"Quality" can simply means that the part meets its design spec, which may be that of a budget product. I think we need to convey that they are actually "stronger". That's what gives them the endurance.
Decide for yourself which best fits *your tool* (or *your requirement*).
... or years (with respect to cost effective).
Almost by definition the budget/disposable will be inferior.
It might be my hoarding instinct but I just can't imagine anyone 'disposing' of a tool that still has life in it. Maybe 'disposable tool' is the wrong phrase?
Sentence not needed, and might be patronising. I'm sure the less well off are quite familiar with the 'classifieds'. I have bought a several that way, usually as an intro to find out what the tool class might be able to do for me. Admittedly, these days the budget ones are so cheap that there is less point in that.
?fluff??
I can't imagine that anyone would buy two at once in the anticipation that one will fail. Buy serially, yes, or for the dual functionality you mention (drill/screw). Perhaps you did not mean buy two at once but that's how I read it.
You also need foresight :-)
The word "comfort" crops up several times - I am struggling with the concept of a whirling power tool making me 'comfortable'. I associate that more with my bed! This needs a word that conveys 'ease of use', or 'comfortable to hold' might do it.
Do you mention any of the online tool stores?
Rather than 'wipe the floor' how about some specifics, like "drills a
1/4" hole right through a brick in 10(?) seconds, compared to 5 mins with a B&D hammer drill".
One thing that threw me when I first tried one is that nothing happens until you apply pressure to the bit. And, boy, does it then happen! I very nearly took my first one back to complain that it was u/s :-(
Maybe add a bit about how they work. e.g. Motor winds back a big weight against a spring then releases it (vs similar description for 'hammer' drills)? Is that how they work - not sure?
... but do not expect them to have the same power as a mains drill (see below). they also run down fairly quickly. A second battery is almost essential to be re-chargeing while you use the first one. (OK just saw you mentioned it later). Speed controller. Avoid the dial type.
I see. I've never bought power tools from sheds, now I have yet another reason not to.
I cant really agree. One of my biggest buy mistakes was an even cheaper codless item, and performance wise its fairly crap. But despite this, I use it regularly, because it still does light duty screwing, and thats all thats needed for a lot of small jobs.
You can scoff, but loads of people are buying this cheapshit kit, and mostly using it.
understand
Yes, though I'm not so sure about the willy bit. (Everyone hides their
2=2E4v tools.) People still need to know what they can do with them.
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