All new gas appliances to be banned in UK.

[harry]

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose. Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!

[tabbypurr]

how absurd

[Brian Gaff]

No neither have I but the thing is this, if they are not going to let people get onto gas, they will do just what you see in other countries. Use cylinders of gas instead.

In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable future they have to use Gas to generate power. It will need a love affair with nuclear, and better power storage systems to allow renewable to work well when there is a peak demand. All electrical heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only use it if we can make making it far more efficient. There has been no real development of electrical heating since the very early days of electricity. Itt still is put current through a resistor and the device gives off heat. Its not terribly efficient. I do not see the LED Equivelent of lights for heat anywhere, after all.

I think its a bit soon to say we shall not use gas. As I say I took the choice not to have gas, but I do not have any central heating installed other than storage heaters, but they do have drawbacks of time issues. IE they use cheaper electricity, but try to store the heat, but are not that efficient, and often when it gets cold its when the heat store is getting depleted before the next cheap rate time so one gets either an override which is not really a good way to do it, or use those oil filled heaters, which are better to take up the slack in the evenings.

No when I heard this last night I almost laughed myself silly.

Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead of coal at the moment. Where do these come from. Are we destroying Canadian and Norwegian forests to make electricity? Brian

[Brian Gaff]

Now where did I put that heat pump. Brian

[spuorgelgoog]

It's a lot easier and cheaper for the gas transporters to sell bulk gas to a power station than to have to pipe up lots of new housing estates and have retail sales involved in the supply chain.

The electricity retailers will be happy as they'll be able to pass on the generation costs through smart meters.

We'll pick up the bill as usual.

Owain

[Tim+]

I think you'll find that it's very efficient Brian! The inefficiencies arise from the power generation and transmission, not from the final conversion.

Tim

[Harry Bloomfield]

It happens that Brian Gaff formulated :

Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of heat out, ignoring transmission losses.

[Andy Burns]

And ban new houses being connected to mains gas before 2025

[Andy Burns]

Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.

[NY]

So new houses will have to be heated by electricity (storage heaters or heat pumps) or else by oil. Until oil runs out. Then you really*will* be making people put all their eggs in one basket, given that there are more and more restrictions on wood and coal stoves as main or backup heating.

And you have to "sell" the idea that it will be more expensive to install, and maybe to run, and (according to the article) will take longer to heat up a room - presumably because it is lower power. That's a hell of an advertising and PR campaign that you are going to need :-)

We are looking to move house and we went to look at a house the other week that had been extensively modified by the builder who lived there. It had some sort of underfloor heating that needed an air vent in the ceiling of each room. My wife and I were very conscious of a continuous and intensely irritating whine throughout the house from the air vents. Is that going to be the future of central heating?

Having a house that is connected to a gas main is seen as a big selling point for a house because it is cheaper to use gas than oil, and storage heaters or bottled gas are even more expensive.

Ironic that 40 years ago "North Sea Gas" was touted as a universal saviour.

[Andy Bennet]

But cost in excess of £10k to install ...

We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k to upgrade our existing wet system. With a breakeven time of 12 years compared to an electric boiler fitted to the same existing wet system, I figured the replacement cost of the electric boiler (£1k) versa the replacement cost of the air source heat pumps (80C system) (£7k) over the 12 year period the electric boiler was a no brainer. So far the running cost of the electric boiler has exceeded my expectations (cheaper to run). It has infact worked out cheaper to run than our old solid fuel (anthracite) boiler over this winter so far ...

[harry]

It will be heat pumps. Many new houses have them already

[harry]

Using gas to generate electricity is far more efficient than caol or oil,

[Chris Hogg]

How silly! How very silly! Forward to the past!

Of all the fossil fuels, natural gas releases the least amount of CO2 per unit of heat produced, 25?30% and 40?45% less carbon dioxide per joule delivered than oil and coal respectively*. We should be encouraging its use, not prohibiting it.

Not that it actually worries me very much. I'll be long gone by then, and also by then it will be obvious that CO2 has nothing to do with global warming.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Andy Burns explained :

So for most people, the running cost is a touch more than it would cost for the same from a gas boiler..

[RJH]

Is that 13k the DIY cost?

[Andy Bennet]

No, "professional" installers.

[Tim Streater]

It's 100% efficient.

[Max Demian]

62% if you are lucky. A condensing boiler is more like 90% (If heat is what you want and you are comparing it with a resistive electric heater).

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oil already banned.

Heatpumps untril te wind stops blowing then freeze to death.

Until oil runs out. Then you really*will* be