Advice sought on opening a 'broken' safe



I think not. Usually when I connect the standby battery an indicator light comes on. Also the keys when depressed give an audible feedback. Neither happens now - like there was no battery connected. Ger
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Are you sure? One would hope it's just the keypad on the 'outside' - the rest will surely be inside the safe.
If not then angle grinder the thing in two - it's not a 'safe' you'll want to be keeping.
Mathew
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wrote:

I agree. Just sort of hoped the electronics would be accessable. As you say, probably not. Sounds like the grinder isd the answer. Ger
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ger wrote:

Have you though of asking advice from the manufacturer?
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Well, the company still exists and has an office in Liverpool: http://www.phoenixsafe.com/en/home.html Why not ask them?
Chris
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On 14 Jan, 15:46, snipped-for-privacy@proemail.co.uk wrote:

I suppose expecting the manufacturers to help on a 90 safe was asking a bit much. Try:-
1) Pressing the 9V battery in hard and/or waggling it around a bit. If this is a PP3, the press-studs often lose their grip. Or you may have a dry joint between the holder and PCB. If so, a soldering iron applied to the battery contacts might remake the joint from outside. If you put an ohmmeter across the battery contacts (try the probes both ways round) you should see a few hundred or thousand ohms, not an open or short circuit.
2) Pressing the buttons hard. If they're the rubber-coated-with- graphite type like some calculators/TV remote controls, the graphite wears thin. But you've got to get the usual signs of life from the electronics first.
3) Forcing the handle round by extending it with a lever -- bit of pipe or pair of wood/metal bars clamped either side.
4) Getting a cold chisel under the safe enough to lift it 1mm off the joist to hacksaw the bolts might be better than levering it the whole way.
Chris
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wrote:

I suppose expecting the manufacturers to help on a 90 safe was asking a bit much. Try:-
1) Pressing the 9V battery in hard and/or waggling it around a bit. If this is a PP3, the press-studs often lose their grip. Or you may have a dry joint between the holder and PCB. If so, a soldering iron applied to the battery contacts might remake the joint from outside. If you put an ohmmeter across the battery contacts (try the probes both ways round) you should see a few hundred or thousand ohms, not an open or short circuit.
2) Pressing the buttons hard. If they're the rubber-coated-with- graphite type like some calculators/TV remote controls, the graphite wears thin. But you've got to get the usual signs of life from the electronics first.
3) Forcing the handle round by extending it with a lever -- bit of pipe or pair of wood/metal bars clamped either side.
4) Getting a cold chisel under the safe enough to lift it 1mm off the joist to hacksaw the bolts might be better than levering it the whole way.
Chris
Chris, I have just checked with a meter and the external battery terminals are open circuit. Sounds like you've been here before? You are suggesting a soldering iron on the terminals in case there's a bad joint on the inside. Worth a shot. Ger
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We have several Phoenix data safes, some bright spark lost the key to one of them, Phoenix were very helpful when I spoke to them, try calling them!
How old is the safe?
Sparks...
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Yes, talked with the manufacturer. Get a locksmith they said!! :(
Ger
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Have you entered an incorrect code several times?
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Arse!
How old is the safe?
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Not sure - I'd say about 10 years. No more. Maybe less. I have emailed them again and asked if they have anyone who knows the internal structure of the safe and, if so, could I call them. No reply yet!!
Is that 'arse' as in - 'how very disappointing' or 'arse' as in 'don't take that crap from them' ??
Ger
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wrote:

Safe manufacturers are usually less than happy about telling people how to get in their safes.
I think the Titan range was a pilfer and fire protected safe. If so if it only has the single centre lock and the door is usually fairly easy to crowbar off. The secret is to have a very big crowbar. Drill and cut a slot in the outside skin to allow you a gap to get the crowbar in and then lever from the corners on the lock side.
This skilled technique is shown in vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID"078516
Failing that the best route in is usually through the back - you will find it has a fairly thin skin with an insulating layer between the outer and inner skin (sometimes sand or concrete to make it seem heavy). With luck the inside layer is even thinner and can be drilled and hacksawed to avid the angle grinder sparks damaging the contents. On these cheap safes the door is often thicker than the sides or back.
To get it off the joists either raise a few floorboards and undo from underneath or if it is a chipboard floor get one of those cunning floor hole cutting kits which cuts a replaceable plug out of the floor. There is no point it trying to crowbar it off as you will need to lift the floorboards to repair the damage done by this anyway so its better to lift the floor first and avoid the damage.
You can sometimes cut them free by getting a bandsaw blade, cutting it, and fabricating two wooden handles to make a long saw so you can pass the blade under the safe and with two people either side (a bit like old fashioned lumberjacks) saw the bolts.
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Thanks Peter for all that. Ger.
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Cheap and getting cheaper, so it's rare that it's ever worth opening such a safe cleanly.
Phoenix are a bit better than the average: better construction and no crappy "easy access" wafer lock making the whole gadget pointless. However any real "safe" has a rating of 5k at least, so if you're only looking at 1k / 1k5 than it's an indication that corners have been cut.
The uk.d-i-y approach is to cut the corner edges off with an angle grinder and a grinding disk. Then take the whole thing off the wall, re-weld the corners and re-attach it. Many of us are tooled up to do this much, in a couple of hours' time, plus paint drying.
A Phoenix 900 is (AFAIK) drillable in a couple of minutes - by a chap who knows where and how and charges accordingly. No I don't know. This is probably the cheapest overall option, considering the mess and replacement.
One of the 30-something Yales took me about 15 minutes to open, by manipulating the secondary lock using a real tubular pick (about 50 to buy, if you buy it). The Happy-Shopper ones with the wafer locks are far less secure.
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If it's got external hinges just cut them off. If not cut around the panel that holds the "electronics" on and look inside for a coil that operates a small lever mechanism attached to the rear of the lock. Apply 9v direct to the coil. Failing that if that coil is dead then you need to dig deeper and find the latch that retains the lock itself and physically "realign" it.
Easy when u know how ;-)
DAMHIKIJD....OK
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Thanks Chrisj, Andy, RW, I will work on those suggestions. And report back. It'll be a few days. I'll attack the electrics first and then try drilling!! But where to drill? Ger
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RW wrote:

Wot that mean?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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Dont Ask Me How I Know, I Just Know
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ger wrote:

Cheers. None of the anagram sites I looked at recognised it.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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