advice on problem low energy bulbs please

[Stuart Noble]

Those I've seen take an age to reach the gloom they term full power, by which time I might well have fallen down the stairs. Easy solution is to leave them on the whole time...

[meow2222]

Unaware consumers make all sorts of assumptions, sellers routinely trade on this fact. It is down to each buyer to go get some awareness of the category of product if they wish to buy best.

As for jaundiced, its reality in a commercial world. You're not the first to want to change it, but I can't see that ever happening in reality. The only realistic solution is for consumers to think and question, and to not worry unduly over the trivial things.

NT

[Andy Dingley]

Then get some modern ones, from a good maker such as Osram

Osram are German, which means strict laws on restricting mercury use.

Low mercury means a small amount of mercury to vapourise.

A smaller amount to vapourise means it happens more quickly.

Faster vapourisation means faster time to full brightness.

[clot]

Cannot agree, both are important! I used to be incandescant about the CEGB's objectives. They were not charged with an objective of efficient energy conversion - hence the cooling towers with about 30% of the original source wasted to the sky and other impacts, if I recall correctly. I have used CFLs extensively in the household for over 25 years; originally only in locations that had lights on for extended periods of time and now, with the exception of the kitchen, throughout the house. The issue of mercury content was a red herring but will come into play as reductions in emissions generations from power stations and other sources start to kick in.

Wonderful stuff, mercury. :) I used to play with it as a kid - how many others did? My kids have never seen the stuff! Now, our major emissions are likely to be hospitals, although that has been constrained re thermometers and also the most common way that we go to see our maker! And then possibly landfills. Until 2030, I understand that there will be more emissions generated by crematoria as a result of more of us departing with fillings intact than previous generations!

>

[Andy Hall]

Not really.

I'm not the green zealot here, so not guilty.

Hopefully not, but the output is not equivalent to that of the comparable proper bulb.

That's neither here nor there. The manufacturers are misrepresenting the numbers. They are not guaranteeing a minimum life. They should either do that or quote the basis clearly.

Have you measured the heat contribution from incandescent bulbs and taken that into account, as of course should be done.

I'm not making any assertions, simply making the point that this is not an honest game on the part of the CFL brigade.

Easy to do that when you want a particular result.

[Andy Hall]

It's not really trivial to make such dishonest statements about product longevity, however.

[clot]

I told you that the mice knew all about it. ;)

[Andy Hall]

That's why I said that efficient production is.

That's all very interesting, but in terms of energy saving, if it were necessary, is like playing the violin while Rome burns - tantamount to irrelevant to it.

[meow2222]

A) Its not dishonest, its factual. B) Its the buyer's responsibility to read or not. C) It is entirely trivial. A quarter of the British population dies as a direct and preditable result of their own actions. (Half the popualtion dies from cancer & heart disease, 50% of which is believed to be caused by diet, exercise, smoking)

NT

[Andy Hall]

It isn't factual.

navigate to this site

at the entry for any bulb. It says

Lifetime: X thousand hours

It doesn't say

Lifeitime: X thousand hours *

and lower down details of the failure rate means of specification.

Navigate to

claims an operation life of 10,000 hours. Again unqualified.

There is nothing to read. Where is the information in the manufacturer's sales meterial and specification sheets.?

It would be if they were to take their lifetime argument out of their sales proposition. It's a lie.

I wouldn't care as long as I can choose not to buy them. Today, with one exception, of exterior lighting in awkward places, I don't.

If, however, there is legislation to force their use, then this fraud needs to be exposed.

A different issue and irrelevant to this. The advertising for human beings doesn't say

Lifetime: 70 years.

[Huge]

What is the sound of one knee jerking?

[Andy Champ]

I just went to Philips' web site to look the numbers up. Not a wonderful experience, and I couldn't find anything there either.

Andy

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

Can I confirm you tried

the data off the box of mine read:

"6000h

815 lumen 120mA

Softone 16W -> light* 75W (not been able to find what the * corresponds to).

Soft white light - Lifetime 6 years* Uses 5 times less electricity. Light output measured according to IEC 969 standards, compared to a

1000 hr soft colour bulb of similar light output."

Its energy rating is B.

HTH, Kostas

[meow2222]

softone not soft colour

[Andy Hall]

An emetic product, then

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

Not sure what you mean. The above is an exact quote from the box; it's them comparing to "soft colour bulb". And yes, pretty rough colour.

Kostas

[Andy Champ]

Nope. The main Philips web site. It directed me to the commercial lighting stuff, not the home site, and didn't quote hours for that either.

Same problem. Is that minimum 6000 hrs? Max? Mean? Median?

For all sceptics BTW I'm quite happy with the ones I'm using right now. But elsewhere I have incandescents, either because they are better for power cycling or they just look nicer.

Andy

[Adam Aglionby]

Just clarify Halogen, AKA Quartz Iodine AKA Tunsten Halogen is a type of filament lamp, whats different is the filament is contained in small quartz glass enevlope with a little bit of a Halogen. Newest flavours use an IR reflective glass that increases efficiency further.

Commonly found in outdoor floodlights, 150/300/500W linear lamp and in MR16 downlighters in mains GU10 and low voltage , 12V bi pin, 12V is a sweet spot for halogens efficiency and good MR16 LV lamps are pretty efficient, 40+ l/W.

Energy savers, Compact FLuorescent , CFLs etc are a type of fluorescent lamp where the mixture of phosphors determines colour. As far as understand conditions inside a CFL are quite alot different from wider bore fluros like common T8/12 4 foot tube. These have been around since the 1930`s and technology is well advanced, colours like Chroma 50, were developed for markets like textile and paint colour matching.

Colour Temperature tells you how warm the light will look, candlight at 2300 Kelvin to bright north sky 6000K. Colour Rendering Index tells you how accurately something will actually show colour without distortion, daylight gold standard at CRI100, tunsten including halogen continuous spectrum also scores CRI100.super duper high CRI fluro tube CRI 95 , standard no brand CFL mid 80s, good CFL that actually quotes it 90+ CRI.

Problem being you cant always get good colour rendering with low colour temperature, of course with high colour temperature put 3 in a box with acylic diffuser, add timeswitch sell for 40 times cost as SAD light ;-)

Look for high CRI or comparisons to Chroma50 or C50 lamps as search terms.

HTH Adam

[Derek Geldard]

You, like Hansen it seems have an image of themselves as a :

"Great big dynamo" on a bike.

Or a great big pansy.

Whatever ..

Far be it from me ...

DG

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:29:43 +0000 someone who may be Derek Geldard wrote this:-

Nice try. However, being rude simply demonstrates how little notice people should take of your postings.