Abused word

Gripe - I think the title "Engineer" is widely abused.
The bloke in the white van who services my boiler is not an engineer - he is a mechanic.
The person who designed the boiler and worked out how to make it was an Engineer. At best someone who performs fault finding on a boiler could be a Technician.
In most companies there is an heirachy and an Engineer is the professional person who does the design and can perform all the calculations required to develop the product to perform to specification.
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On 29/04/2019 11:40, DerbyBorn wrote:

I agree. In many parts of the world it is a reserved title - like Architect is here - and you can only be an Engineer if you have a higher university degree in the subject. I'm trying to remember the correct form: in Italy, isn't it something like Ing. Dot. Luigi Pescori?
Nick
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Except it would be a bit naff for people to do that (address each other thusly, I mean).
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On 29/04/2019 13:08, Tim Streater wrote:

It's quite common in Germany. If suitably qualified, you'd be addressed as "Herr Doktor Streater" or even "Herr Professor Doktor Streater".
Once they got to know you better, they'd drop the formality and just call you Herr Doktor. :)
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wrote:

This was very noticeable when I worked at CERN. The German techs in the physics groups were very formal with their German physicist bosses, in a way that did not happen for the other nationalities.
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On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:50:07 +0100, Nick Odell wrote:

I don't think "architect" is a reserved title.
Having worked in IT a while back, when being a Programmer became boring and two a penny the same role was suddenly a Software Engineer then a Systems Engineer, and the next step up was a Systems Architect.
As far as I know (Google is your enemy, try DuckDuckGo) there is no requirement for any formal qualification to fill any of these roles.
Cheers
Dave R
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On 29/04/2019 13:32, David wrote:

AIUI, you can call yourself a <something> architect or an architect(ural) <something> but if you use the title on its own without the necessary qualification and registration RIBA will be down on you **pun warning alert** like a ton of bricks.
Nick
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On 29/04/2019 14:12, Nick Odell wrote:

RIBA may well be the snitch but it's the ARB that prosecutes
http://www.arb.org.uk/public-information/regulate-use-title-architect/
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On 29/04/2019 11:40, DerbyBorn wrote:

He fits the OED definition of 'A person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures'. If you want to use the word to mean something more exclusive, don't appropriate it, just add to it - 'state registered domestic heating design engineer' or something.
The one that pisses me off is when the news says things like 'scientists say that...' without any indication of what branch of science. They wouldn't do that with the arts.
<snip>
A window cleaner once told me he was a 'vision enhancement operative'.
Cheers
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On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:07:27 +0100, Clive Arthur

Is the right answer, *for the UK* and when the word 'engineer' is said / considered with a small e.
In the same way (and in the same country specifically) you would use the 'Engineer' with another (specific group of) word(s) to qualify they were (differently?) higher qualified.
I was called a 'Field Service Engineer' (not my idea but what was used / understood for the role at that time) and in some cases I did 'design' stuff, not only electronic test equipment but the layout of data comms cabinets / solutions etc.
Not once did I or anyone else confuse my abilities with someone who could design a building, aircraft or bridge ... or confuse my abilities with those of a 'formal' "Engineer" or a specific role, like 'Architectural Engineer' or but just went along with the term ...
I was also sometimes asked to occupy the role of 'Sales Engineer' as I was asked to accompany a 'Salesman' and offer a more technical insight to a potential sale.
I have since been happy to be called a technician, not wanting to offend all the *real* engineers. ;-)
Funnily, when I was an 'IT Instructor' (MCT, A+CT, CNI), nobody confused me with a commercial pilot flight Instructor or diving instructor. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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T i m wrote:

I had a trip like that once and ended up having to explain to my commercial colleague what escrow was.
Chris
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wrote:

Bless. ;-)
The 'Salesmen' didn't really like us 'engineers' with them as we were very likely to tell the truth ...
I took a call once that was really a sales call. I respectfully explained they had come through to 'Service' and I would put them though to the right salesperson for their area. They said if I did that they would hang up and go elsewhere! ;-)
I gave them the retail price for the right device for their needs and they seemed happy. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:40:06 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

The Germans have it right.
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On 29/04/2019 11:40, DerbyBorn wrote:

This complaint is at least 50 years old. More recently it is "Manager" with a capital M that has been moving down the ranks.
It is interesting that "Chartered Accountant" rolls off the tongue, as it were, in the way that "Chartered Engineer" does not.
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On 29/04/2019 12:18, newshound wrote:

And in 99% of employment, having chartered engineer status has no benefit.
Shame it's not a requirement for engineering, as it in accountancy.
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On 29/04/2019 12:31, Fredxx wrote:

I have a qualification in Engineering and can put "CEng" after my name. What you say about being of no benefit used to be absolutely correct but in recent years (last 5/10) I have seen an increasing number of vacancies advertised where CEng is an essential requirement. Primarily those jobs where the incumbent is going to have to sign off some product or process to certify that it meets given regulatory requirements.

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Likewise for pharmacy. A qualified pharmacist (with a degree to prove it) can legally deal with Controlled Drugs, which a pharmacy technician can't (unless a pharmacist checks the technician's work afterwards).
My dad is a qualified pharmacist, even though he only worked in hospital pharmacy for a year or so before moving into research in a pharmaceutical company. My mum was a pharmacy technician who worked at Stoke Mandeville Hospital. When SMH opened a new spinal injuries centre, they needed people to go in one weekend to help transport drugs etc from the main pharmacy to one in the spinal unit. My sister and I, and my mum, were able to take most things, but my dad was in hot demand because he was allowed to transport Controlled Drugs, even though he hadn't worked in hospital pharmacy for about 20 years.
And yes, a Certain Person from Leeds who did a lot of fundraising for SMH *was* there. I just thought he was an annoying git, but my sister, who was about the age that he liked, said his wandering hands and false mateyness made her feel *very* uncomfortable. This was long, long before anything was known about him, even though I'm sure a lot was suspected and hushed up.
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On 29/04/2019 14:20, Chris B wrote:

I'm now retired but the company I worked for for a long time has been actively promoting the charted engineer status in the past 5/10 years. As you say, one aim to legally sign of a process or a product. The other reason may be that the parent company was foreign and they needed to harmonise similar roles and pay scales across multiple countries.
I put my car in for a safety recall yesterday[1] and was pleasantly surprised to be told that it would be done when a "technician" becomes free.
[1] Ford Focus 2014? onwards - a slipping clutch can cause a fire!
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On 29/04/2019 12:31, Fredxx wrote:

I'm not sure that I agree. There have been far too many cases recently in which companies given a clean audit by accounts have shortly afterwards collapsed and failed. That very rarely happens to things designed by engineers, even if they are not chartered, fortunately. I think I prefer things to be that way around.
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On 29/04/2019 21:34, Clive Page wrote:

+1
Another Dave
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