A new front door - DIY or not?

[James Harris]

Is it worth a DIYer putting in a new front door or is the job so difficult that it's worth paying for an installer?

The doorway gap that this is for is on the small side, 2010 height by 825mm width. AFAICT there *is* a standard door for that which comes in at 1981x762 but that does not match the size of the existing frame. Is it possible to buy frames that can be adjusted to aperture size? Rather than being of timber say the door is of composite or uPVC.

Are there firms who will make a composite or uPVC frame to a custom size so that a standard door will fit it?

Or is it not worth all the hassle and better just to get a firm in to do the job?

The reason for wanting to replace the existing front door is security in at least four respects:

1. The existing door is heavy and wooden but sounds hollow in places so could be broken through.

1. The existing latch is a normal Yale type which can easily lock someone out. I would like to replace it with the kind of locking mechanism where one has to turn a key from the outside to lock the door.

2. If there was a fire and no one inside could find the keys to the existing locks they would not be able to get out. (This is for a flat with only one door. It often suprises me that people don't leave keys in or near the front door so that they can always get out if easily if there was a fire.) So I would prefer to put in a locking mechanism that can be opened from the inside without a key. PVC doors with Eurocylinders can have that type of latch.

1. I wanted to add a mechanism which secures the door (the vertical side of it opposite to the hinges) in multiple places. You know the type: lift the handle and bolts slide into place up and down the length of the door rather than just near the centre.

On that last point, I found that Yale have a product which they call Doormaster Professional

The second link shows the product better.

Yale's system is supposed to be a way to retrofit a multiple-bolt system to an existing door.

James

[Tricky Dicky]

There are plenty of supply only composite door suppliers who will manufactu re to fit specific openings. You need to carefully measure the opening and contact the company regards what fitting allowance is required as in most c ases it is this measurement they work to. Prepare to pay in the order of £450 but prices vary depending on how much glass is in the door and what level of hardware. Exterior doors are now subject to Part L of the building regs. If you use a fitter and they are FENSA registered then you will rece ive a certificate that says it complies but be prepared to pay virtually do uble the actual price of a door for the privilege. If fitting yourself then check with your BCO who may only be concerned that the door is Part L comp liant charges for building reg. compliance vary from authority to authority . Doing the job without building regs. Approval is only an issue when you c ome to sell your house.

Richard

[stuart noble]

If your existing door is a good fit, you can always use it as a template. Run a circular saw against a clamped straightedge and you can't go far wrong. IME you can however go seriously wrong using a plane. As regards security, most houses are more vulnerable at the back, which is where I would concentrate my efforts. Front doors are normally just kicked in and are often most vulnerable on the hinge side. I'd get a man in, mainly because my chisel work isn't that good and I hate to see badly fitted hinges and locks.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Any normal front door can be broken open quite easily if determined enough. To get one which will resist forced entry reasonably well will require one made out of or clad with steel. Go to a 'rough' council estate and look at the type of doors fitted there. ;-(

No reason to fit a new door if a different lock would satisfy the requirements.

Keys left close to a front door are prime targets for thieves using a bit of wire through the letter box, etc. That's often how cars are stolen.

That's fairly common with UPC etc doors. With their own frame.

[Tim Watts]

Hi,

Have a play here - most uPVC doors are "custom":

Taking your points:

0) Yes - custom sizes are "normal" and if your frame is very wide or tall, just add filler panels.

2) You want a multipoint lock with "mushroom" lock points plush hinge bolts. Without the "mushrooms" it's easy to lever the frame enough to disengage the lock - saw a locksmith do it in person. With good multipoint locking, and hinge bolts, it's pretty solid.

2a) Don't forget the letterbox - low down in a blank panel works quite well, far enough from the lock.

3) I also recommend you consider what I did on a new uPVC rear door: thumbturn inside, eurolock outside. You need to positively lock these, but you cannot lock people in (fire) so works well as long as there's not letterbox nearby or the letterbox is shielded.

4) Pretty standard as part of what I mentioned in 2) but quality varies a lot. You would be best to have a close look. Think about how a crowbar might defeat it.

Fitting is DIY-able but personally I would not start with a whole door. Small window maybe. Fitting the frame is easy enough but glazing is tricky first time you do it and is key in getting the door to close right. Then there are lots of adjusments points to fiddle with.

I'd find a small local firm by word of mouth, not a national and ask them for a quote. For them a door is a couple of hours including measuring - depending on how easily the old one comes out. The door is expensive - fitting may not be a lot extra in reality.

[James Harris]

...

Agreed. The door has a Yale lock which causes the problem, and two mortice locks. If I take the Yale away then I could do with something to hold the door closed but not locked. Is there a fitting of some sort that could replace the Yale and hold the door closed without requiring the door to be mortice-locked?

I'd rather put something on the back of the letterbox for that. Being unable to locate the keys during a fire is a bigger issue.

James

[Dave Plowman (News)]

A ball catch? Or a simple latch with handles inside and out, if you want the door not to blow open etc, but not be locked from either side.

If you wish to secure the door when you are in, why not plain bolts? No keys needed. With the best will in the world, having to find keys in event of a fire ain't ideal.

[James Harris]

The latch with handles sounds good. I need to learn more about different types of front-door locks. I've just found that there are some which call themselves euro-cylinder sash locks. It looks like they could provide a sprung latch but with handles both sides so that a person could not lock himself out ... and they also have an interchangeable cylinder.

I like the idea of being able to change the cylinder on change of tentant (as this will be for a place which is to be rented) much as one would for a double-glazed door. And the euro cylinder can be expected - hopefully - to be secure.

My own front door has a handle to engage the locking mechanism and a single Yale-type key which controls the lock engagement. When the lock is engaged the handle won't unlock it it. That is maybe the best of both worlds and I would like to be able to put something like that on the lettable flat. The only problem with that is that the door cannot be unlocked without a key even from the inside.

A small issue with such bolts is that, if locked, someone outside with a key would not be able to get in.

Yes, the safety side of this is the main thing to get right.

James

[harryagain]

Re the hinge side, you can buy "hinge bolts" from "Screwfix". Very easy to fit, cheap just a hole and metal dowel makes the hinge side much stronger.

Well worth fitting, ten minute job. Fit as many as you like!

[harryagain]

Best is letter box outside the house and nothing in the door.

[harryagain]

Make sure your lock has the BS kitemark or you may have trouble with insurance.

[Nightjar]

On 02/09/2014 17:15, harryagain wrote: ...

Difficult, given that there is no British Standard for multi-point locks. BS3621 only applies to single point locks. The appropriate standard is PAS 3621, developed by the Door & Hardware Federation to apply the principles behind BS3621 to multi-point locks.

[meow2222]

What are they going to charge you? How long would it take you? Are you will ing to do it if it saves you £100 an hour - or whatever the figure is. I' d certainly diy.

NT

[meow2222]

Eurolocks have an EN standard rather than BS. The multipoint mechanism is a separate matter.

NT

[charles]

I think you will find that all EN are translated to a BSS.

[Nightjar]

The relevant standard is BS EN 1303:2005, but that only applies to the cylinder, not to the lock it is fitted into.

[Lee]

1. The existing latch is a normal Yale type which can easily lock someone

uPVC doors seem to default to this option, I had to specify that I wanted a yale-type action (but key to dead-lock, of course).

This sort of takes in your other point, we wanted the "yale" type action precisely so that we didn't *have* to dead-lock the door when we are at home*. Although I realise that relying solely on the rim-lock wouldn't be secure enough for a lot of people. Or some insurance companies I guess... That said, I wonder how many people engage a mortice lock (on their front door) when they are at home?

*we didn't want a thumb-turn key on the inside, either :)

[Bob Eager]

Our insurance company is happy with a Yale PBS-2. Which is BS 3621, but essentially a secure rimlock.

[Nightjar]

+1

[dennis]

Doors with "pad" handles lock behind you, doors with normal handles don't. You can fit either to most upvc doors or just change them, the locks are the same.