"Ed Sirett" wrote | A few weeks ago I posted a poll of the causes of of boiler death | based on my experience. Main causes were [snip] | Now the new ones that have gone in suffer none of the above | problems so there will have to be some new reasons for boiler | death.
Damaged gaskets from repeated power flushing by British Gas :-)
Owain
Does he carry an electron microscope to measure the thickness?
Even if he did, he'd have to cut a sample out of the heat exchanger, prepare it and scan it. It would be very time consuming.
A sophisticated ultrasound setup is probably the only way you could do it non-destructively.
It had better last that long for the price - but BoilerMan(TM) warned me that "they don't build them like they used to" and that 5 years was reasonable, 8 years very good. That being the case I did the numbers on boiler price vs gas savings and found breakeven after 5 years for a condesing boiler - just as the d*mn thing is due for replacement. As a result I don't want to spend the money and get the simplest and most reliable unit, figuring that it would be cheapest to own. Hence my original penny-pinching question.
What causes that corrosion, out of interest ?
Generally lack of inhibitor chemical and/or air being introduced into the system often because the header tank is not plumbed to the correct places on the system.
.andy
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This would assume that gas prices don't rise.
Also, you would find the ROI economics different and probably better from choosing a better quality condensing boiler rather than a cheap one built to a price.
The old adage of buy cheap, buy twice applies here as in most things.
.andy
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Course not.
And even if he did, he couldn't, 'cos electron microscopes can't do that.
Well, surveyors carry damp meters that don't work so why penalise a poor plumber?
Virtually all, if they are installed, commissioned and maintained correctly. Many boilers are replaced because the parts to get it working are approaching a new boiler. If parts are available there is no reason why a boiler should not last 20 years.
In message , IMM writes
John - you meant "parts available at a reasonable price" - which is he killer
I have more experience than you in these things. The manufacturers are certainly not building boilers to last
I did not clock your original question - so I've looked back to the start to find it.
I assume that you are entirely happy with the performace of the existing system both for heating and HW, (i.e. control, flow & pressure).
If your current system complies with Part L of the current building regs (which I doubt) then a straight swap might be suitable.
However I suspect there are at least some of the folowing 'deficiencies'.
1) No wall thermostat. 2) No independant control of water temperature. 3) No TRVs on cooler and less used rooms. 4) Existing boiler is not available as a replacement due to it being no longer compliant with the efficiency standards.Thus: The straight swap is likely out. You could of course fit your own if you can find the original model or a similar model.
There will be no probelm find a selection of boilers that have or can be made to have 12kW output.
I would start with a Vaillant 615e system boiler and would charge about 1400 (london prices).
As for weather the quality of the boilers is better or worse now or yeasterday that is hard to say. Clearly a lump of cast iron with very simple controls and control of corrosion (usually caused by wrong pipework and/or leaving out inhibitor) can last a very long time, but also waste a lot of gas.
This is the upper bound: [BTW I see BG are quoting you could save 37% on your gas bill with a new boiler (this sounds like an extreme case to me). ] Hmmm.... let's see how they can work that one out. New condensing boiler SEDBK 90% so gas burnt for 100 kWh of heat is 111 kWh Gas previously consumed 111 * (1/1-0.37) = 176 kWh SEDBUK efficiency of old system 100/176 = 56.8% Let's see what guzzlers have that sort of efficency. The SEDBUK database lists just one model at or below that figure. So unless you have that one make. you won't save that much.
Maxie, you think you have.
Maxie, they are building them to last, depending on maker, some more than others. Certain over priced parts to force people into a new model is another point entirely. The point is that if the system is "installed" and "designed" well, commissioned correctly and maintained correctly (e.g, replacing inhibitor every 3-5 years) they will last 20 years - if parts fail then they can be replaced (assuming availability of parts). It is very simple.
A few years back a friend approached me in a panic as her 9 year old combi had stopped working. It was a Ravenheat. I asked her when was the last time it had been serviced. She said "never, does it need to be?". The pressure vessel had blown and most of the water in the system was not there as the pressure relief valve would squirt it out. I looked at it, and found the following points: new pressure vessel, new pump as the existing was making loud noises and was ready to pack up, a new 3-way valve, new auto air vent, new control board as the auto air vent was leaking and dripped water all over the board below and possibly a new igniter box too. "ALL" parts were available and the combi could have been brought back to life and operated for another 9 years, if she kept and eye on the pressure gauge of course. I said let's rips it out and I fitted a Wickes Combi 102 (Halstead Ace High) with a 2 year guarantee, as it was the most cost effective thing to do as this poor combi had been badly neglected.
The Ravenheat didn't have enough failsafe lockouts on it as it operated with virtually no water pressure. Better boilers have a low water pressure system lockout.
A further e.g., the Ariston Microgenus's heat exchanger is a simple 45 minute job to do and cost around £100. Most would scrap the boiler if the heat exchanger went and pay £40-500 for a new combi.
The economic argument to scrap or repair is a separate point to longevity.
Did she ask to see your CORGI card??
.andy
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In message , IMM writes
You jest
But expensive
Let's take a potterton suprima for example - the pcbs often last a couple of years at a cost of £170 + VAT (?), fitted by a CH fitter you are probably looking at about £250-300 to have it repaired.
Worst case example. Poterton are poo.
Nevertheless the boiler will last 20 years with much problems if the system is designed, installed and maintained correctly. Only minor components should fail in the interim. If you have a major item (apart from pump) you are unlucky.
No need. I am "competent", and far better than 90% of CORGI card holders I know, with most being just plumbers.
You have friends???
But you've always said that you are "professional" as well. That being the case, to do this work legally you would have to be a CORGI member......
.andy
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I am not hands on. CORGI men are hands on. I tell them what to do.
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