Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

This seems both premature and ill-informed; usually the RHS is slow to change and certain of the necessity. Very few, if anyone, accepts the idea that was proposed by two authors of one article that the brazilian laelias should be sophronitis. Far more people, including taxonomists, think they should either stay laelia, or more often, should be included in cattleya.

I am so tired, so very tired. I just can't keep up anymore. There is no easy solution.

I would keep an eye on the official RHS database record to track changes. They are the single authority and all other compilations are drawn from the RHS data. Its a shame that searching a tag name in these databases will just get more confusing than it already is.

For what it's worth, I would like to see some new fields in all these databases that cross reference old names with new names. That would add value to the product for sure. It is a certain bet that the RHS will not do this; they will publish it once in the corrigenda and assume everybody knows how to research. Just changing the names in the databases to reflect current thinking without any cross reference to old names is caca. We might as well just start making up our own hybrid grex names like they already do in some orchid exporting countries...

i'm sitting here with a stack of internal revenue cumulative bulletins on my desk, trying to update and change some cites in a book--i thought *those* were tough on the renaming/cross referencing thing--! oi. they got nothing on this orchid naming business.

i'm just going to keep calling 'em all Fred.

--j_a

OrchidWiz keeps track of synonyms. I know the AOS Plus will too, but they ain't out yet.

I have no affiliation with Orchid Wiz or AOS Plus.

K Barrett

Here's my question: Orchid Wiz keeps track of synonyms. That's good. It most likely does this for species names, i.e. the Latin binomial of naturally occurring plants....the ones that seem to change names every few years as taxonomists fiddle. BUT does it keep track of the changes to nothogenera; i.e. the names of artificial genera like Slc and Potinara? ....that would be EXCELLENT. Changes to nothogenera used to be nonexistent but it's like the taxonomists have suddenly gotten a hold of them....

if you look up Ctna Why not will the program tell you it is an obsolete synonym of Guaritonia Why Not or will it just present you with the new name and leave you to post a question on a newsgroup about how your plant does not show up in the database and urgent help is needed....

For my own part, I don't think I can memorize a whole new list of nothogenera and their natural genus combinations. "Just call it an orchid, OKAY? And if you need more, call it Fred. and if you need to be specific, call it O. Fred 'Red' and don't ask why... And BTW, don't water it every 7 days....water it when it needs it and don't ask how you can tell!!!!"

Golly it's hot.

yeah, how are all of y'all with greenhouses keeping from spontaneously combusting in this?

--j_a

You don't have a swamp cooler? (Did I ever show pics of my swamp cooler encrusted in CaCO3? I rebuilt it over 4th of July during our 100F+ days? Now *that* was a feat.)

K Barrett

At the moment, I'm blithely ignoring it. 90% of my customers don't care about the names anyway -- many immediately discard the nametags like the price tags on clothing, I can tell because I find them littering the parking lot. Of the other 10%, more than half still refer to digbyana as a Brassavola and what used to be the Encyclias as Epidendrums, so I seriously doubt they'll come looking for any Guari-whatevers. The remaining 3 or 4 percent will just have to do their own research if they want the latest names. Kenni

I think Kenni and Danny are right. I think the RHS has been pushing to make "Cattlya" a generic name for many years now and we hobbyists have freaked that the hybrid registration pages would be lost. Rather like the AKC or Horse breeders dropping their pedigree lines. (I think the orchid hybrid registry goes back farther than breeding lines, but I may be wrong...) The

And Kenni is right that anyone who is interested will just have to do the research themselves. The preponderance of hobbyists just can't be bothered, what with the complexities of modern life. Hmmm..... pay your taxes, keep the kids off drugs, watch the presidential debates and figure out if your orchid is a guarthanthe whatever.... the orchid would fall pretty far off my radar, just ahead of the presidential debates, LOL!

As for me I'm ignoring it. And lighting a candle for Alex Maxiamano (sp) who has to pay attention.....

K Barrett

What I want to know is who made up these names? Who are these honorees? In the past the person making the cross got the honor of the name. Mr. Ota got to be Otaara becasue he put a Broughtonia on a Blc first. Who the heck is Thwaits and why does he get to be a new name? Who is Peetse that he gets to be the new Rhylc?

Butch to Sundance: Who are these guys?

K Barrett

IMHO, they are effectively "lost" now, because they will be so difficult to use -- esp. for planning purposes (breeding new hybrids). I predict an overall decrease in the number of new hybrids made -- dabblers, who have made some really nice ones, will decide it's too much trouble -- and of those still produced, a great increase in "trade names" like that Den. Emma White. It isn't only Taiwan and Thailand who have begun to rebel, I see more and more US nurseries selling unregistered hybrids, with and without awards.

Other problems with the whole mess come up in the interaction between AOS and RHS, and then what how Helga (if WildCatt is still around) and Alex handle it. For example, the award on my Smbcna. (currently Ctph, last I looked) Garnet Glory 'HCC/AOS' got dropped out of WildCatt for a couple of years because, while RHS decided that it was a Ctph, AOS continued to list the award as having been given to an Smbcna (or at least that's why Helga told me it was left out, when I inquired). Alex did a better job (at least from my point of view), but his product was not yet in wide circulation. Others may seek awards for the personal satisfaction, but personally, if I'm going to spend half a day dragging a plant to judging and then pay for the award, I WANT the publicity -- to help me sell those 2000 clones ...

BTW to Diana: Apologies, I know you like your tags accurate (although what constitutes "accurate" seems to be somewhat debatable at the moment ...), but not even for _you_ am I going to relabel 15 or 20 thousand plants! Kenni

May I ask why changing names is such a big deal? after all, the peopl who create new hybrids are supposed to do their research anyway Changing names wont mean hybridization becomes suddenly more difficult The plants are the same. I think it is very unlikely that commercia growers and serious hobbyists suddenly will stop hybridization jus because the name of the crosses is different.

And as for the nurseries selling unregistered hybrids. it's nothing ne or a big deal after all. Those plants are marketed for mass consumptio as decorative plants. Many growers don't care about AOS awards or RH registration, they just want to produce as many blooming plants as the can for valentine's, mother's day, etc. And most consumers don't car about tags either, nor should they be required. Again I fail to see ho these changes will make any difference

Hi Diana,

Let me through in my two cents.

It must be time for money grant among the PHD's. Every time it happens we get these kind of change. Now I like change, but I tend to measure change in terms of 'VALUE ADD'. As far as I can see, the only value add is to the book and data base suppliers so they can sell more books. I really get upset at these 'academic make work projects' and the resulting trouble they cause.

Roy

Sophronites;

transformation

Encyclopedia

Alex will work HARD for any extra $$ he makes! Economy Label Sales and its competitors, OTOH ... Kenni