On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 12:48:16 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
You really have no clue what my initial comment was all about, do you?
Let me make it simple:
My question had nothing - absolutely nothing - about the role of religion in anyone's life. I couldn't
care less what your religious beliefs are. My question was nothing more than an inquiry into why
you chose to connect 2 things that have no connection
For some reason, you chose to make a connection between atheism and knowing right from
That's akin to saying:
I may be Japanese, but that doesn't mean I don't believe their (sic) is a Right and a Wrong.
I may be short, but that doesn't mean I don't believe their (sic) is a Right and a Wrong.
I may be female, but that doesn't mean I don't believe their (sic) is a Right and a Wrong.
There was simply no reason to make the comparison you made, expect perhaps, because some
idiot made a stupid comment ~30 years ago. Do you honestly think that people need to be
told that atheists know the difference between right and wrong?
Again, don't turn this into a religious discussion. Leave it right where it started, with a
connection between 2 things that had no need to be connected.
You still don't see it, do you?
It is illegal to drive while drunk. Drunk driving is WRONG. There are
SECULAR laws that state this. Nothing in any religious texts make this claim!
In most jurisdictions, extramarital affairs are not ILLEGAL. Yet, they
are considered "WRONG". Because of religion.
There is nothing illegal about me saying "Christ, what a screw up".
Society says this is OK.
Religion says otherwise.
Society says it's perfectly acceptable to conduct business on Friday evenings,
Sundays, etc. Nothing Wrong about it.
Yet, jews would consider Friday night business to be Wrong. Christians
would consider Sunday business to be wrong.
Clearly, religion plays a role in deciding what is Right and what is Wrong.
Being Japanese has nothing to do with Right or Wrong.
Height has nothing to do with Right or Wrong.
Gender has nothing to do with Right or Wrong.
RELIGION HAS *EVERYTHING* TO DO WITH RIGHT AND WRONG. By extension, LACK
of religious belief leaves open the possibility that there is no "moral
compass" -- no "teachings" to impose that sense of Right or Wrong.
I can COVET your belongings, your wife, take YOUR lord's name in vain,
do business on YOUR holy days ... because none of those things are
WRONG (illegal) in the eyes of a secular (non religious) world.
You would be (personally) well served reading some of the writings -- pro
and con -- regarding atheism v theism. See some of the "issues" that
are commonly addressed and how both sides "spin" these -- in an attempt
to claim their opinions are "authoritative". A read through most of the
theistic writings will leave you with the very distinct impression that
these folks believe their theism endows them with this "Knowledge"
(as an absolute -- yet, based on an intangible "belief").
I'll now ignore your posts. In a day or two of doing so, my server will
spare me the distraction of even *seeing* them. Clearly, we have nothing
to say to each other that the other is willing to hear.
No one has been killed! Driving drunk doesn't imply a death!
Society says it's perfectly acceptable to EXCHANGE MONEY on Friday evenings,
Sundays, etc. Nothing Wrong about it.
Yet, jews would consider Friday night MONEY EXCHANGING to be Wrong.
Christians would consider Sunday MONEY EXCHANGING to be wrong.
On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 9:13:11 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
Here's just one of *many* sites that offer alternatives to using caps for emphasis, since caps
are commonly considered to be the internet equivalent of yelling. Nobody likes to be yelled
at, so you turn off more readers then you impress when you yell - or when they think you
are yelling, even when you think you are not.
Catholics are not supposed to perform servile work on Sunday. You can
exchange money by using your church envelope.
Originally the work done by serfs from which they were freed on Sundays
and holy days in order to worship God. Until recently, servile work,
forbidden on Sundays, was work that was chiefly physical. At present
servile work is heavy manual labor, or such work as in a given society
people commonly associate with strenuous effort and do not engage in
when they have the freedom to avoid it. Implicit in the Church's
prohibition of servile work on Sundays is fidelity to the divine
commandment to keep holy the Sabbath. This means avoiding activities
that would hinder renewal of soul and body, i.e., needless work or
business, unnecessary shopping or housekeeping.
Christianity includes more than just Catholics.
Historically, the (christian) sabath (sat PM-> sun) was intended to be a
time void of commerce and recreation. At one time, there were laws against
drinking, working, traveling, etc. on Sunday.
As a kid, I can recall the *beer* display in the supermarket being
covered (with a giant "window shade" sort of device) after 8PM
on Saturday -- even though the supermarket remained open (and into
Sunday!). Yet, we could drive across the state line and buy
until 11P. Here, there are no prohibitions regarding beer/liquor on
In Colorado, you couldn't sell a car on Sunday. Here, the dealerships
are typically closed on Sunday -- but, my understanding is that this
is by convention, not law (i.e., you can find select vendors who are
willing to do business on Sunday).
I.e., all of these things are still "wrong" in the religious sense
yet the secular world has decided they are "OK".
OTOH, the catholic church seems to routinely decide to rewrite
what's "acceptable" -- in a manner that is suggestive of a marketing
campaign! (gays, second marriages, etc.) I wonder if they've got some
grand master copy of their bible locked away someplace and a big
jar of WhiteOut... :>
I grew up in central CT (but haven't lived there in ~40 years).
I thought they had changed those laws? We used to run up to make
quick jaunts up to Springfield when the packy's closed.
Marriage among the clergy is just a "rule", not dogma. E.g., Peter (as in
"upon this rock I will build my church") was married. I.e., Like a used
car salesman, "everything is negotiable" :>
Elsewhere (one of these threads) I mentioned a book regarding the prices
we pay for things. One of the points made in the text was something
along the lines of religions (or other things) that *require* more
of their "customers/devotees/followers" tend to have more *intense*
(devoted) followers. (note that this isn't talking about absolute
quantities but, rather, the intensity of their "devotion" -- for
want of a better word). The explanation (loosely speaking) was that
these folks have "invested" a fair bit in the product and, thus, have
more to lose (figuratively) by abandoning it.
So, make time to pray 6 times a day and, the theory goes, you'll
cling to that practice more than "show up for Easter Sunday mass".
If this argument is valid, then *changing* can be seen as a bad
strategy as it "cheapens" the product and the investment those
have made in it.
By way of a silly analogy, most folks would consider a $1000 item
more precious than a $50 item -- regardless of the actual cost/value
embodied in the item. Spending 3 hours "at services" each Sunday
probably leads to stronger ties than spending 45 minutes (the length
of a mass when I was a kid) "whenever you CHOOSE to go".
Is the RC membership or donations
level dropping? Might be making a
larger tent, and more inclusive?
I don't remember reading in the New
Testament, about Jesus seeing empty
pews, and whiting out a couple of
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