wiring question Knob and Tube

[RBM]

N8, I could be wrong but I think that means you're living in a fire trap

[Bud--]

You have conviced me euthanasia is a good idea.

um...er.. just curious hallerb - how old are you?

-- bud--

[hallerb]

I am 50:(

My POINT, people think nothing of replacing their vehicle every 5 years or so....... at a lifetime cost of how many hundreds of thousands of dollars?

But get their panties all ruffled up over investing 5 grand for a safe, efficent, modern, on the biggest thing they own their home. That just happens to appreciate in value.

somehow this doesnt add up, perhaps its me?

[RBM]

The problem with most of your "points" are that you group everyone and everything into the same mold. "All" people don't neglect their houses, "All" K&T is not 100 years old, and in flames, "All" insurance companies won't insure houses with... and all this from a person that believes and posts that FPE panels and breakers are fire hazards and posts the typical " the sky is falling" rant, regarding them... but lives with one in his own home!!! You need to straighten out your own priorities. How old is your car?

[hallerb]

have 2005 cobalt and 2 late 90s caravans. had first estimate this week for new main service. Must be rid of FPE panel but thinking of adding back up NG generator easier doing it all at once.

[Nate Nagel]

I don't think so... house is all masonry up to 2nd floor, and I've been systematically going through and inspecting all the wiring and replacing when necessary. As soon as it becomes consistently warm I'm going to rewire the whole 2nd floor...

nate

RBM wrote:

[Bud--]

Nate Nagel wrote: > I don't think so... house is all masonry up to 2nd floor, and I've > been > systematically going through and inspecting all the wiring and > replacing > when necessary. As soon as it becomes consistently warm I'm going to > rewire the whole 2nd floor... >

I took it to mean your cars (or related their age) - a la hallerb.

-- bud--

[Dave Martindale]

Not everyone fits this mold. My car is 15 years old, for example. I plan on keeping it as long as it's reliable.

On the other hand, people who *do* change their car every few years are not doing it because they rationally decide they need that new car. They're doing it because of ego, or status, or something not very rational.

Replacing the wiring in the house isn't going to be the same sort of visible change as buying a new car. It's money spent on something intangible, so they may well feel differently about it.

The problem with your argument is that you're complaining that people aren't making what to you is an obviously rational choice (replacing K&T), using people who buy cars irrationally as your example people.

Dave

[hallerb]

my point is that while in a lifetime most folks can easily spend 100s of thousdands of dollars on new cars, while penny pinching 5 grand for the most important investment of their life.

cars depreciate while homes appreciate.

but wiring isnt sexy, cant be seen and most people only care about whats visible:(

In the lifetime of the K&T home how many paint, remodels, new carpet, furniture $$$ have likely been spent?

probably way times more $ than the cost of a rewire...........

my wife is a see the bucks spent, myself I prefer stuff runs well.

[timO']

On Mar 6, 12:52 pm, Speedy Jim wrote:

House inspectors know if they kill a deal, they'll never get a call from a broker again. When you're buying a house, it's difficult to call in an inspector from out of town (who won't be influenced by the potential loss of business), because it will cost you big. It's inevitable for an old house to need improvements and upgrades. I'm really angry at the last inspector who came for my current home; he missed a bunch of things, but I ultimately blame myself for overlooking them, since I was involved in the inspection. When you want a house you tend to rationalize past items in order to keep the deal going. I have that K&T in the attic, and the problem I have with it is mine doesn't have a ground, and it's difficult to work with when upgrading ceiling lights or adding fans. In addition, in my house the wires are laying on the studs so if I have to go up into the crawl space (rarely) unless I want to have to avoid live wires, I got to cut off the breakers. As far as asking an electrician to come out and give you advice, I called one and he wanted $90 an hour portal to portal; so if he came out and spent an hour, it would cost me nearly $300 because I live in the country. Also the textbook suggestion would be to maybe check with your county building department to see if a permit is required for the work you are planning, and if your jurisdiction permits the homewoner to perform electrical work themselves. You do not necessarily have to identify yourself when you call, just to ask a rhetorical question. That way you can have your project inspected, and you can be sure they will re-access your property and bump up your taxes. By the nature of your question, and the comments you made regarding how you plan to upgrade your wiring, you are obviously wanting to do a reasonably good job and not jeopardise your safety or your home's value. In my experience the guys working the electrical aisle at the homecenters are retired electricians, and offer good advice and direction, or tell you who to ask if they don't know the answer themselves hope this helps

[RBM]

In my area, home inspectors are generally furnished by the selling realtor, after an accepted offer. Their job is to find as many "defects" as they can, not to kill the sale, but so the buyer can re-negotiate a lower price. In most cases, you should never add outlets to existing K&T. When it was installed, it did a limited number of outlets and works fine for light loads, especially lamps and fans and such, that don't use a ground. If you need new outlets, run new circuits

[RBM]

And you're entire statement is based on the false pretense that house wiring needs to be replaced at some predetermined interval. I think "most people" believe their house wiring is safe, or they would repair or replace it. Age alone does not make wiring bad or dangerous. Each building's infrastructure should be looked when purchased and repairs made as necessary

my point is that while in a lifetime most folks can easily spend 100s of thousdands of dollars on new cars, while penny pinching 5 grand for the most important investment of their life.

cars depreciate while homes appreciate.

but wiring isnt sexy, cant be seen and most people only care about whats visible:(

In the lifetime of the K&T home how many paint, remodels, new carpet, furniture $$$ have likely been spent?

probably way times more $ than the cost of a rewire...........

my wife is a see the bucks spent, myself I prefer stuff runs well.

[hallerb]

irs

many home inspectors are complete jerks, and have no idea what they are doing.

example me selling home with sump pump. Inspector, You MUST have GFCI protection!! Completely unsafe!!!

I add GFCI buyer backs out........

Second home inspector TERRIBLE you should never GFCI a sump pump!!!

I had a bunch of examples...........

home inspectors are a buyers best friend, and a sellers worst enemy.

[Nate Nagel]

Well I'd be lying if I said the Stude hadn't tried to catch itself on fire, but that was due to an aftermarket fuel pump... not the car's fault.

nate

[Nate Nagel]

I thought the inspector that came and looked at my place was pretty good, and fair. He found lots of little greebly stuff, but I made it clear to the seller that I wasn't going to screw him on that, I only wanted two things checked out (a backdrafting water heater flue and a weeping pipe, both of which he fixed for not much $$$.)

The only thing he MISSED which was not his fault was the bootlegged grounds on the upstairs receptacles, but he would have had to physically remove a receptacle to find it.

nate

[Steve Barker]

There shouldn't be any "joints" within the walls.

[hallerb]

OBVIOUSLY you arent familiar with K&T ALL joints are in walls soldered, no metal boxes, impossible to really inspect wiring.

A overheated joint from overload or solder failure can overheat and start a fire in a wall, with wood lathe a bad fire can result.the wiring goes thru ceramic tubes in walls, I have perrsonally seen overheated failing joints, cracked tube, whats really bad is you cant see things.

adding insulation is a known hazard, the wiring current ratings are designed around free air circulation.

now add in K&T your lucky to have ONE outlet in most rooms, so the occupants use extension cords, increasing the risk of tripping or a fire caused by damaged extension cords.

[Steve Barker]

OH, and adding insulation is NOT a known hazard. It was an assumed one, and has never manifested itself. I can see cloth romex being much more dangerous.