Wiring New LED Ceiling Light Fixture for 1960s House

[trader_4]

Presumably the idea is that if a wire does come loose, then the tape will prevent it from contacting something conductive. The question is if a wire does come loose, what is the likelihood of it pulling so far out of the wire nut that it can do that and how often that occurs. Clearly the industry, NEC authorities, etc don't think it's an issue, otherwise tape would be required. And that presumably is based on all the accumulated knowledge of what electricians actually see in the field. Besides that, wires can always come loose. Yet backstabbed receptacles and switches are allowed. Screws can come loose too, yet there is no code requirement to wrap those either.

[Ralph Mowery]

The company I worked for had tens of thousands of wire nuts on the equipment and lighting. Hard telling how many boxes of wire nuts I have installed from small wire about 22 gauge up to 10 gauge or larger. Almost none of them have any tape on the wire nuts. Sometimes there will be some tape on the wire nuts on equipment and motors that viberate a lot. Probably not needed but sometimes it is done just for added piece of mind.

The instructions on the boxes of wire nuts we use say to lay the wires parallel to each other then twist the wire nut on. No twisting or tapeing of the wire nut is mentioned.

Maybe the home owner wire nuts are poor quality and they may need the tape. Could be the compay thinks the home owner does not know how to use the wire nuts and thinks the tape will help.

[trader_4]

It's probably out of an abundance of caution by a few companies to reduce the chances of any claims from homeowners. Likely they figure a lot of homeowner's won't get the wire nuts on right.

[gfretwell]

Harbor Breeze is not a wire nut manufacturer.

[gfretwell]

That is a forum and anyone with an opinion can post, just like here.

'

Don't come out to play with the adults using your kindergarten electrical skills. To be a 110.3(B) it needs to be a "requirement" from the "manufacturer" of that particular product, not a "suggestion" from a

3d party.

By a like token, no manufacturer "requires" the anti oxidant on aluminum connectors although a few "suggest" it. Suggestions are not enforceable.

Field experience? I have been a licensed commercial and residential electrical inspector for 26 years. Certified IAEI, ICBO and SBCCI.

If you want to tape them up, go for it. I really don't give a shit any more.

[gfretwell]

NFPA is still a slave to the manufacturers who sit on the CMPs and they make installation as simple as possible, not harder. You see none of these "suggestions" in enforceable code.

They also push their products so you will see some things get put into the code before a product even exists and some questionable things get listed that make us shake our heads. They are usually things that make installation faster like the old back stab devices. Even the good old wire nut is being replaced by stab connectors like the wago. Now Ideal and GD are making them. I guess Legion would tape them up too. No real electrician ever would. It is all about seconds per splice to them. That is the point of the more expensive device. Time is more valuable than money.

[gfretwell]

More likely, their lawyers do. I see HD (Hampton Bay) even goes as far as saying you should hire an electrician to install a fan. Strange advice from a do it yourself store but I bet a lawyer decided it.

[Ralph Mowery]

What is your take on the WAGO Lever connectors ? The ones that have a leaver to pull up then slide the wire in and push the lever down. I bought a box of them to see what they were but have not used any except for a radio that I needed to be able to disconnect the power cord inside the cabinet. It is only about a 3 amp 120 volt device.

I also bought a box of the ones you push the wire in for low current things like the lights with ballasts. Don't think I have used any of those either. I would not want to use those for anything over an amp or two, just my opinion.

[Dean Hoffman]

These things have the advantage that one can see the connection. It's easy to reuse them.

[gfretwell]

The lever ones are better than the pure push in. I suppose the question on any of them is what they will be like in 50 years, a common estimate for an installation life although there are plenty of occupied buildings much older than that right now. My ex's house is 50 and this one is closer to 60.

[Ralph Mowery]

Yea, 50 years is not that old for a house now. The last house I moved out of was built in 1965. That was about 15 years ago so it was 40 when I moved out. It was a single story brick house. Lots of schools are probably older than that. A Jr high I went to was built around 1962 and I was in the 2nd or 3 rd class to go there. It is still in operation. Same as 4 high schools that were built the same time.

[Clare Snyder]

The house I own right now is 48 years old - I've been here 40. I don't consider it OLD!! My brother's house ai about 87 years old - yes, I consider it old. The house I grew up in was over 80 years old when Dad bought it in 1957 - and it is no longer (demolished and replaced with a set of semis about 5 years ago)

[gfretwell]

Those are nice for something you are taking apart fairly often since you are really not supposed to reuse regular wire nuts. I doubt a contractor will spring for the extra cost and labor to use these in general construction.

[gfretwell]

I have worked on projects in older buildings. The State Nervous Hospital in Arcadia used to be a WWII Army Air base. The Ca D Zan in Sarasota was built in 1926. Both still had most of the original wiring. One of the things I did in Arcadia was a grounding integrity test on the conduit systems. It was surprisingly good. All came in at less that 1 ohm from neutral to ground and I didn't find any regrounded neutrals. They added the redundant ground necessary for patient care areas.

[LegionX]

Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut. Tug test. If passes you're good if one or more wires moves or actually comes out you fail. Do it again using a fresh wirenut if you must use them.

We suspect the idea of ideals pushin connectors instead of wirenuts whenever possible would also result in a discussion like this one? We never have problems with them. Much faster you know each wire is firmly landed and isn't going to part ways with the others easily. Didn't see max current rating on the jug at the supply house but they are rated for 600volts (1000volts in a specific case) and will accept a number ten wire. We're confident ideal knows such gauge wire is rated at 30amps.

We haven't cooked one during our own experiments either. And we have held them at 22 to 25 amps for a long period of time. No melting no running hot. Etc.

They're more costly than wirenuts but the time saved can make up for the cost.

[TimR]

I always pretwist stranded because if you just lay them parallel you can catch a couple strands on the wire and not know it.

But solid I think is safer not twisted. I think the wire nut grips better, and depending how thick your wire is it isn't always easy to get a clean twist. Just how I do it, not sure there's any code requirement. I do take care that the solid wires are exactly the same length and in contact the whole stripped part.

[Elle N]

For the record, I read all the comments to date. I am enjoying them for their educational value, and because I can implement 'best practices.' Thank you.

[gfretwell]

The instructions with wire nuts suggest "leading" stranded wire around the bundle. The main advantage of twisting solid is it holds stuff together while you are screwing on the wirenut. That is handy if you are in an awkward position. Make the stripped part long, twist it and cut it off at the proper length. Then you know they are all the same length. Just don't be stingy with the length of wire on the rough so you have plenty to work with.

[Scott Lurndal]

Doesn't everyone use modern connectors? I favor these:

[Marilyn Manson]

They seem (just based on a picture) that they take up more room than wire nuts.

Do they? Or do they pack in better/neater?

I know that Alumicons take up a little more room.