We do as well.
That falls under don't fix it if it's not broken. Fuxor the insulation up too badly where tape cannot be effectively used to reinsulate and you get the pleasure of running a new line - if you even can. You can quickly make an easy switch changeout into a f****ng project.
Clare Snyder snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca> Wrote in message:r
We would challenge that with the installation instructions provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts as the very next thing to do after installing the wirenuts.
If the inspector still persists we'd go to the state one for clarification. Do we ignore the manufacturer instructions that tell us to do this or... Do we install the damn thing as the manufacturer provided instructions for?
We usually do it the way the manufacturer wrote. Perhaps incorrectly assuming on our parts that the manufacturer knows the product better than us. Illogically assuming again you know - since they built it and got it ul and intertek approved.
We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So it's more than an amateur thing yes. So much more that some manufacturers specifically list taping the wirenuts as the next step after applying them. But hey they are just the people who make the device. What the f*ck do they really know about it. Lol.
Voltages
Which companies are that. It certainly isn't Hunter (fans)
Cite that? Is it in the UL white book or is it in the instructions for the wirenuts? Ideal says you don't even need to twist the wire.
Lemme guess, you are a homeowner who bought a DIY book.
Interesting. I twist stranded but never solid. Now we have a whole new argument.
I usually twist solid too, starting with it a bit long and trimming to the spec. They just say you don't have to. What you do have to do is be sure the ends line up when you screw the nut on so all have the same penetration and that might be hard to do on a ladder, maybe in bad light. If you twist them, you know what is going into the wire nut.
The thing to note is all of the manufacturers are simplifying the installation procedures to make it go faster. They are certainly not adding a step like using tape. Arlington has a whole line of new products being sold on how many seconds the installer saves per termination. Time is money and these days contractors will use a more expensive product if it saves time. I actually question some of these things like using a single flat spring to establish a grounding path on a stab and go AC/MC connector but it is listed so you just have to hold your nose and accept it.
probably>didn't
Let's see an actual instruction sheet where that is called out - OK??
Who is the "we" that have "all" been trained by these master electricians?
Maybe I missed it...what group are you a member of that make you part of a "we"?
Just curious.
OK...here you go...page 6.
Commercial Electric (Home Depot) Spin Lights
Interesting that the manufacturers of these twist on splicing devices do not mention tape. From a code enforcement perspective that is not an enforceable "recommendation" from a 3d party user of the wiring device. Even if Ideal used that language, it is not enforceable. The words "must" or "shall" pretty much have to be used to make it a
110.3(B). As an inspector I am pretty disappointed in Home Depot for selling this piece of crap. Notably missing in that document is any U/L or other NRTL listing. It is not unusual at those kinds of stores.
The document I linked to doesn't mention UL, but the use and care manual that comes with the product itself does. So does the fixture as well as the lamp socket included with the fixture.
I have these two products sitting on the table right in front of me as I type. The UL symbol is on the boxes, the manuals, the fixtures and the sockets.
Did you tape the wirenuts? ;-)
I've never seen install instructions for any fixture, fan, appliance, etc that says to tape the wire nuts. So I'd like to see some examples too.
MM came up with one but it is in the instructions that probably describe an installation beyond the listing for the product. This is a screw in replacement for the lamp in a keyless and they threw in a lamp holder along with instructions of how to trick it up in a box. Presumably the lamp replacement module is listed and most lamp holders are listed but it is unclear that the assembly as described was evaluated. At any rate it is just a suggestion, not a requirement in the instructions. It is also significant that taping wirenuts is not even mentioned in Home Depot's flagship lines (Hampton Bay) just this chinese thing they sell. I do wonder if Commercial Electric Products in Ohio knows they are using their name.
Did you retract your "I am pretty disappointed in Home Depot for selling this piece of crap" statement?
No one is using their name. Their name is Commercial Electric Products, not Commercial Electric. They do, however, "know".
From:
In fact, one could argue that the name usage issue is the other way around.
On the Commercial Electric Products website they use the Commercial Electric name:
"Today, Commercial Electric continues to provide our customers with..."
Not entirely.
ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable. > > The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed. > > I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem. > > The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine. > > Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box.
with breaker open. > > Red wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open > > White wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. > > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. > > Is the following plan correct? > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED
So you agree this isn't the US company someone could easily confuse it with. I also question the listing for this being installed in a box the way they describe. Knowing how the chinese abuse listing marks I might even question the listing of the lamp replacement module and the lamp holder they tossed in the box. Are these at least halogram labels with control numbers?
**************** quoted text UL marks come in many forms: it might be a label, or it may be die-stamped, silk-screened or molded into a product. Whichever the method of application, there are FOUR design elements that need to be verified to make sure the UL listing is legit:The UL trademark: the letters ?UL? arranged diagonally (descending left to right) within a circle, with a small ® symbol directly below the U. If the ?UL? letters are level with each other, side by side, then you're looking at a phony symbol. The word ?listed? printed either below or beside the circle in all capital letters: LISTED. A 4-character alphanumeric control number, or a 4 to 6-digit issue number. In the case of the issue number, it may or may not be preceded by the phrase ?Issue No.? as well as 1 or 2 letters. A product identity phrase that concisely names what the product is.
If any of these elements are missing or does not match the configurations listed above, the UL mark is about as real as Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and Snuffalupagus (sorry kids!
**************** end quoteA common ploy is to use a listed part or two and imply that means the whole product is listed. Lamps are famous for that. (Listed cord and lamp holder but not the assembled lamp)
At any rate a suggestion in those instructions is far from a requirement and I would defer to the manufacturer's instructions for the wirenuts.
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