Whole house "battery" wiring/power...

Thats why Westinghouse beat Edison in the early days of deciding what electical distribution system to use, Westinghouse (scientist) wanted AC, Edison (who was more of an inventor than a scientist) would not let go of his prejudice for DC. I still have an old AC/DC radio from those days, when radios were sold to work on either distribution system.

Westinghouse was an inventor, and entrepreneur (as was Edison) - who recognized good ideas when he saw them and a way to get around Edison's stranglehold on the electrical "lighting" systems. This was weakened before Tesla, by Gaulard and Gibbs who invented the transformer (1886 or thereabouts for the first AC transmission). - making long distance transmission possible. polyphase machines invented by Tesla were the icing on the cake, and 3 phase systems followed soon after. Edison wanted to hang onto his empire- so fought tooth and nail against AC- he had a good thing going. Tesla once worked for him but got shafted. As for the radio- If I recall correctly, until the late 1920's all radios were battery powered. Then AC/DC units came into use. Better ones used transformers to get the various voltages, filament and plate (replacing the old A and B batteries). The typical smaller radios that were sold in the 40's and 50's would work on DC as they did not have a transformer, and tubes operated on the rectified line voltage, with tube filaments in series. This was done, not with intent to use them on DC supplies but because they were considerably cheaper to build but could have a hot chassis (safety? what's that?).

The history of those times is very interesting. An often ignored inventor who thought things out before trying them (as opposed to the Edison approach) , was Elihu Thompson.

Reply to
Don Kelly
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In addition to smaller generator/motor and transformer sizes and weights for a given power, the 400Hz machines can be driven at higher speeds eliminating some or all gearing in high rpm aircraft usage (up to 24000 rpm at 400 Hz vs up to 3600 rpm at 60 Hz. ). For aircraft the distances involved are short so that inductance and capacitance are not a problem .

In general, for land based applications the advantages are outweighed by the disadvantages because of the distances involved.

Switching power supplies were not an option in those days.

Reply to
Don Kelly

When I was a kid, I got hold of an old tube type record player that had a metal chassis, for some reason when I was playing around with it on the back porch of our house, I got lit up. DANG!! This was long before two wire cords had a wide bladed neutral. With all the electrical devices I played with when I was a kid, I'm surprised I ever survived.

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Reply to
Don Kelly

AC/DC radios were born out of the great depression. It was the Volkswagen Beetle of radios. The reason for the design was that it eliminated the (expensive) power transformer by wiring all the tube heaters in series and made the set much cheaper to manufacture. A useful side effect of this was that it would work on either AC or DC. An additional potentially very dangerous side effect is that depending on which way the plug was inserted into the receptacle, the entire metal chassis could be live, including shafts that would be exposed by a missing knob.

The classic "All American Five" so named for the lineup of five tubes used in virtually all of them was prolific up into at least the mid 60s. It really is remarkable just how well it worked, despite circuit layout and wiring techniques that would make an RF engineer cringe. It is highly advisable to power these from an isolation transformer.

Incidentally, I read a few years back that it wasn't until the late

1990s that the last DC service was disconnected from a building, somewhere in NY I think. I was amazed by how long it remained in use.
Reply to
James Sweet

That's actually a bit different. The AC/DC radios he refers to use a transformerless power supply with the tube heaters wired in series. Yours likely wires the tube heaters in parallel with a vibrator to supply B+ to the plates when running from batteries.

The worst offenders for radios being plugged into the wrong voltage are

32V farm radios. The old 32VDC rural systems used the same plugs and receptacles as the 110VAC systems standard elsewhere, so it's common for someone unknowledgeable to plug a farm radio into a 120V receptacle and blow all the tube heaters.
Reply to
James Sweet

That's exactly it. 400Hz power has been standard in aircraft for many decades. Not only are the transformers smaller and lighter, but the generators and motors too, and the filter capacitors in power supplies.

It's the reason switchmode power supplies run in the tens of kHz, and some small ones are running as high as 1MHz. As the frequency increases, switching losses in the semiconductors increase, but the size of the energy storage components (inductors, transformers, capacitors) decreases. A 60Hz transformer capable of supplying 300W might 15 lbs, but a 20kHz transformer capable of the same power is less than a pound and far more compact.

Reply to
James Sweet

(snip)

Servicing some legacy elevator motors or building water pumps, IIRC. Wikipedia has a pretty good writeup, linked from the 'current wars' articles. Isn't their subway system still DC? I would never want to live in NYC (or any huge city), but I do find the historical stuff about their physical infrastructure quite fascinating. The occasional show on History, Discovery, or similar channels always sets me off on an internet hunt. If I could get shows like that on over-the-air TV (like PBS in the old days), I'd probably get rid of my satt service.

-- aem sends...

Reply to
aemeijers

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Idiot. It is prejudice AGAINST AC.

It is a derogatory term, so there is no prejudice FOR anything.

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

Yes, silly. 400Hz is still the standard for aviation.

Use some sense. Why would they *downgrade* to a heavier system with zero co-compatibility?

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

I want a citation that switchers are commonly running at and above

1MHz.

NONE of ours did.

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

Somehow my hand ended up between the poles of a 10kV Jacob's ladder on day, while sitting indian style in front of it.

It shot me back about seven feet (my legs). I am sure I clamped the supply down to near nothing, since it was only a 10mA furnace ignition transformer.

That one was phase independent. Surprised I survived my youth as well. I made a shock box "lie detector" as a science project, and was shocking parents with it... mostly. Back then, a kid could get away with that stuff.

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

I've never seen a switching power supply that ran at 1Mhz.

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

The foreign 50hz stuff I've seen is a lot more massive than my home grown 60hz equipment. I've worked on all sorts of switching power supplies but I've never seen a 1Mhz unit. Is it something that would be an aerospace/military item?

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

I've been told that when I was an infant crawling around the house back in the middle of the last century, I unplugged the power cord from the bottom of my mother's Singer sewing machine. The other end of the cord was still plugged into the wall outlet and being the curious little brat that I was, decided to determine what a power cord tasted like. I've been told that I turned blue and my diaper had to be changed. Ever since then I've been getting in trouble for things I've done with electricity. When I was a bit older, I would build Frankenstein like machines in the basement and being no fool, I would get one of my little brothers to plug it in while I took cover behind something. It made my butt hurt for some reason.

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

"Still in use", and "Still being manufactured" are two different things, dipshit. Show me a modern nameplate date. Case closed.

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

That's your ass on fire because you are going to hell. :-]

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

AlwaysWrong strikes again.

One example, at random: LTC3555 three buck regulators, each 2.25MHz.

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I'd be surprised if yours *worked*, DimBulb.

Reply to
krw

They're really not uncommon today. LTC has a pile of 'em. Hint: ignore DimBulb. You won't learn anything from him. He's AlwaysWrong and dumber than even you are.

Reply to
krw

AlwaysWrong strikes again.

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Definition 2a: preconceived judgment or opinion

It has a negative connotation because it is preconceived, not because what is preconceived is negative (or even AC).

Reply to
krw

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