On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:47:09 -0600, rbowman wrote:
Heh heh ... :)
I did talk to the park rangers today, and they said they'll install signs
as they don't want to maintain the trail at their expense either.
And they said that they will put up a trail cam to see what the number of
Can you put a chain or cable across the road with a "keep out (etc)" sign
hanging from the middle ? Having the writing on the drive may not be a big
enough hint for some ... but a chain/cable/gate is kinda hard to ignore .
"Trespassers will be shot" signage might help too . Gotta ask , where does
this road go that people want to be ? Lake , river , or some other place ?
Is it a "shortcut" to somewhere ?
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 10:14:06 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote:
We can put a chain across the trail as it enters the road, but the problem
with the chain across the road is the mail delivery from the USPO won't
hold onto a key or code.
Every other delivery and utility service will take down our gate codes, but
not the USPO.
So the people at the end of the road don't want their mailboxes moved.
That's the only impediment to a fixed barrier.
We did find out more about California Penal Code 602L though:
Effectively, they have to "refuse to leave" after being requested to do so.
It doesn't say that they have to go back the way they came (which is what I
was trying to get them to do).
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:34:11 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314 wrote:
These signs are all funny, and I appreciate the humor, but my question
would be whether people would take them seriously.
We want them to take the California Penal Code 602L and N seriously.
So, we'll go with the standard signs.
I noticed there are even "California" no-trespassing signs we can buy:
At $100 bucks a pop, these are a bit expensive though:
BTW, it's interesting that, in California, trespassing can be a felony!
I think you have to be clear and to the point. Otherwise curiosity
seekers and no-goods will ignore signs. Check with the local police
for their advice on words. Maybe.....
Private Driveway ("Drive" implies it's not a residential road)
City Code 12345 (Small letters)
A trespasser called the local police (actually Sheriff, but let's call them
the cops nonetheless).
He felt entitled to the road, and didn't like this little roadblock:
The cops arrived to ask me what happened, and they could easily see the
I told them that I blocked the road, and that I called them last week to
tell them I was blocking the road, and that I told the bikers to go back
and they went right by me using the foulest language you can imagine.
Just one memorable sentence was "you can shove your private road up
your...", right in front of my kids. The kids were appalled more than I was
(as only my best friends talk to me that way); but, when they called the
police, they also used foul language (according to the police).
The police declined to even take down the report, even though they told the
police that I knocked them off their bikes (I never touched them) and when
the cops asked if they had any injuries and if they wanted to press
charges, they declined. The cops didn't believe them.
The cops did show me California Penal Code 602L, which says that in order
for people to be convicted of trespassing, I need to have signage that is
at least 3 per mile and at the entrance & exit to the "trail".
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 14:35:29 -0000 (UTC), Henry Jones wrote:
According to this document:
Legally, apparently, California no-trespassing signs must say the explicit
words "Trespassing/Loitering Forbidden by Law", and the letters must be at
least 2 inches in height, and the sign must be at least 1-foot square
posted at no less frequency than 3 per mile and at the entrance and exit to
all entrances to any property that wants to enforce the no-trespassing
A suggested legally accepted text is:
TRESPASSING/LOITERING FORBIDDEN BY LAW
VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED
CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE 602
In addition, and only after adding the legally required signage, homeowners
"could" send an official form every six months to the police who can
enforce the rules in their absence (but they will only do so if the
appropriate signage is already in place).
On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 1:02:22 AM UTC-4, Henry Jones wrote:
That seems to imply that they don't enforce the rules when you are *not* absent.
If that's the case, who does? If it's the landowners, please define "enforce" in
Besides, even with all the signage, what do you expect to happen when the bikers
ignore them and use the road again? The police won't be there 24-7 and I doubt
that they will expend a lot of resources chasing down the culprits.
One last question, and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm really curious.
What is the actual problem with people using this connection between the trails and the
park? Is it just a "this is my road" issue or are you concerned with liabity or are users an
actual nuisance, etc.? Why is this such a big deal?
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 01:45:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:
The PDF explains that there are two situations:
a) When you are absent (notice is needed every 30 days)
b) When you are present (notice is needed every six months)
The police told me that "I" shouldn't block people.
I should tell them to get off the property.
And if they don't get off, then I should call them.
The problem, from a practical standpoint, is that the police will never get
here in time unless the trespassers stick around.
I'm not really worried about the people who will flaunt the law no matter
what, simply because I can trap them at will with a little bit of planning.
What I'm mostly working on is signage which will keep most people away.
We can trap the transgressors easily enough since I can show the police
plenty of places to hide and I can install trip cameras.
My only problem is lack of cash - so if you know of cheap trail cameras,
I'd be interested.
1. People have stolen my tools (I don't know *who* did though)
2. People make noise and tell me to shove my road up my derriere which
ruins my quality of life
3. People litter and can get hurt and can sue me
4. An implied easement lowers the value of the land and increases the cost
5. I'm already restricted in what I can do (see mailbox issues) with my own
land - the last thing I need are more restrictions on my own use of the
land (such as putting up a gate).
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:41:29 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:
I like them.
They're about 200 bucks.
I can string a power cord to the road, so I'll look for less expensive
cameras that can connect to the mains too.
Inexpensive trailcams might be a nice topic in and of itself.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 05:02:19 -0000 (UTC), Henry Jones wrote:
Here's another California cite:
Per PC 553 repeats that the required keywords are:
"Trespassing-loitering forbidden by law
It seems also that "Private Road, No Trespassing" can also be used.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 14:35:29 -0000 (UTC), Henry Jones
At least some of them were lying. Private drives sound like
interesting places to look. How many homes are on this one?
Just you? How long is it? Can they see your house from the
road? From the start of the drive? Do you have a lot of trees?
And why do you think that will help? And people will drive on it and
rub it off eventually.
I think you'd be better off getting an additional sign, in the same
style as the first one if you care about that part of esthetics, that
would say something like, "Private property. Nothing worth seeing.
Please respect our privacy" That's what would have an effect on me.
I drive up private drives, especially if they go to more than one
house and no one will know for sure if I'm invited or not. If it's
only one house, I usually stop before they can see me. The last time
it was not marked as private and it was a whole n'hood of 20 houses,
but all the roads were dead ends, one route in and the same route out.
My goal is to drive down every street in the world. This road was
nowhere near 18 feet wide. It was too narrow to turn around without
driving on the grass, so I went to the end and up a driveway where
there was a lot of space in front of the garage. His house was farther
back than the neighbors so I could see their back yard. The woman
waved at me. I waved back.
But I didn't go over to talk to them. I drive a nice white
convertible and the top is usually down when I do this; I don't look
threatening, I look like a friend of one of their neighbor,s and
indeed, I don't do any damage.
A lot of the time if I see it's a one family drive, I turn around
before I'm visible from the house.
Another time there was a state rep who was in the paper for not living
in his district like the law requires. He claimed he was living
over a commercial building within the district, on a very busy
street. I didn't believe it, but later he had a fight with his wife
and daughter and appears to have r eally moved out of the house. I
didn't get that close to his original house, but it was a very
charming road, part of it 100 years old and part of it new. Not
private and not marked as private. I didn't go up his driveway.
I doubt if anyone has ever noticed me any time I did this.
You need to buy a B, or people will make fun.
Or get those things they put at car park exits to stop people entering the wrong way, the flaps that kill the tyres if you drive the wrong way. Or to be more subtle, a few nicely placed nails which were "accidentally dropped there". Just remember to remove them before you drive past, or go round where you know they are.
A land mine would be more fun, but you might get fined for noise pollution.
Pat Glenn, weightlifting commentator - "And this is Gregoriava from Bulgaria. I saw her snatch this morning and it was amazing!"
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