You do a *lot* of things by reaming the hole. That's why it's *always* done.
Just like a doctor amputates a leg that is gangrenous, or a craftsman sands down wood to make a repair, or an auto-body guy drills a hole before pulling out a dent, etc., there are good reasons for being "invasive" when you're trying to fix something.
We were talking only about the *emotion* of having to be invasive with the repair.
The facts are that there are lots of good reasons to be invasive.
I think you completely missed my point. Re-read what I wrote.
It was super clear I was speaking about my irrational emotions. I know the facts far better than you seem to.
Emotions and facts are completely different things.
*all* your arguments were based *solely* on your emotions, for example.Every single one. Not one of your arguments held up to the simplest of facts.
And that's OK. Just *know* when someone is speaking about their emotions and when they're speaking about facts.
The post you responded to was all about emotions.
Don't contort what was clearly about emotions to try to hump me, please. If you want to hump me, that's fine - but do it in real facts.
Breaking the first bead and seating the last bead are the only two steps that take any appreciable force.
That force is supplied in both cases with "levers", not air, in the home equipment.
Any adult male *easily* has the necessary force to push on the lever on a passenger car tire.
I've done three types of tires, where the force range is the following:
I wouldn't even think of doing a large commercial truck tire.
I don't think you show a grasp of the power of levers yet. The force needed for *passenger* tires is well within that of a man.
Just think logically about it. Google for people doing it at home. You see guys doing it in slippers and pajamas for heaven's sake. Now I don't recommend that, but you don't see anyone saying the tools don't work on passenger tires.
So why are you intimating what isn't a fact? I think you just don't like the job.
You don't have to like the job. Nobody forced you to like the job.
But don't throw up imaginary "force" hurdles because there are things called "levers" which any normal man has the strength to use.
You just don't like the job. And that's ok.
You can be true to yourself.
I have a pool, so I clean the tire and drop it into the hot tub and that's perfect for getting in there and spinning the tire slowly to look for a leak.
In *practice* you almost never need to do that because just spraying soap on the tread after pumping the tire up usually betrays the leak anyway, as does a visual inspection with a worn-out screw head being obvious in many cases.
But a valve leak requires dunking or a lot of soap if you don't dunk.
As for getting the bead over the rim, the last bead is the only hard part where I bring in a "spoon" to hold one end in place.
Mounting that last bead was harder before I learned about the drop center tricks, so, I admit that the only part of the entire tire-changing operation that takes any brains is that mounting of the last bead.
Getting it to pop into place is child's play but sometimes takes a lot of jiggling. What I do is screw on the air after removing the schrader valve core (but you don't really have to), and then that gets the air in fastest as I jiggle the tire with both hands.
I've never had a tire not seat, but in the past, I also used the redneck methods, which work, but are dangerous (such as the carb cleaner lighter trick). Those redneck bead-seating methods work. And they work fast. Too fast for my liking. I'll take the 30 second air-compressor bead seating method over the instantaneous carb-cleaner-explosion method any day.
Exactly. You don't want to *do* the job. All your other hurdles (e.g., force) are bogus.
The real reason you're throwing up imaginary hurdles is that you just don't
*like* the job, and that's ok. You can be true to yourself.You don't get it if you say that, but I already explained that my Echo leaf blower is *far* more effort to maintain and store than are *any* of the steel tools lying outside that I use to change tires.
Your argument is toast before you started, because anyone who says that they'd rather invest in the stock market than (do something), is just saying that they don't want to (do something) because the stock market can beat *anything* you ever do at home, e.g.,
Anyone and everyone using the classic "stock market" argument is merely saying nothing other than they just don't like doing the job.
And that's ok. But why can't you admit that you just don't want to do the job? Why lie to yourself?
You're not lying to us. We *know* the answer the moment you bring up the stock market - because it's the *classic* argument of *anyone* who doesn't want to do the job - and has been since forever.
Let's just do some math, shall we?
My neighbor bought a tire for her japanese van at some shop, and complained to me it cost $220 out the door. I was shocked. I looked up her tires, which, on Simple Tire, were $60 each, with no tax and free shipping.
That's a true story, but of course, the numbers are atrocious, so I don't expect you to believe me.
Why don't you pick a common van or common Japanese econosedan and tell me what size those tires are and I'll do the math for you.
Here's a rough estimate of the math:
That's 120 separate mounts.
At $20 per mount, that's 2,400 dollars, which is about ten times the cost of the tools.
Now, you'll tell me you can make $2,400 on the stock market in ten minutes, and I won't disagree with you. But if the stock market was so lucrative for you, you'd sit in bed all day and have personal groomers wash you and bathe you and make food for you and buy new shoes every day, etc.
There's a *reason* people *do things* on alt.home.repair, and it's not because they compare everything they do with what they can make on the stock market.
How long do your tires last? Two years for me, but maybe double that for you?
How many cars do you own? At least two, right? Maybe four or five, but at least two for a couple.
Do the math. Two cars. Four years per set of tires, with one flat thrown in.
That's five mounts for each car every four years. Right? Which is five mounts every two years for a couple, right?
That's a bare minimum, right?
Over your 60-year driving life, that's 150 mounts, at the barest of minimums (it could easily be double that if you have kids).
If you assume bare-bones pricing of $20 per mount, that's #3,000 USD in cost for the absolute minimum of mounts (more likely double that for a family).
You can buy a lot of tools for $3,000 ...
I was typing as I was reading. You get *crazy* mileage on your tires, if you drive anywhere near the average for the USA.
Googling for the average, it varies: etc.
It's mostly between 10K and 16K per year on average, so let's take 1000 miles per month as an easily agreed upon average.
At 10 years and 1000 miles per month, that's 120K miles per set of tires, which is crazy mileage.
All the power to you if you get 10 years out of tires (especially since the RMA recommends replacing any tire 6 years old because they're not designed to outlast 6 years).
Basically you have a lot in common with people who take the bus. You don't need to ever change tires. etc.
But the rest of us don't get crazy tire mileage & lack of oxidation.
You gotta be kidding! Everything you say seems to me to not make the slightest bit of logical sense.
My wife does the same thing.
I long ago figured out that whenever *everything* someone says make absolutely no logical sense, then that means that what they're objecting to is that they don't *want* to do it.
Why don't you just admit you don't *want* to change tires?
The leaf blower is *way* more difficult to store than the tire-changing tools. Are you crazy? There's no comparison (and yes, I have a leaf blower so I know).
The leaf blower can NOT be stored outside (ask me how I know that the straps will fall apart from the sun, and the motor will rust from the rain). It's far more bulky than the bead breaker, but the bead breaker can be flung over the wall into a pile outside and *still work fine*.
Try that with your delicate leaf blower.
Same with the mounting tool, which stays outside in one spot and just sits there. No maintenance ever necessary. Not once. Same with the balancer, but I keep that inside 'cuz it's not made out of steel, but aluminum.
As an obvious summary, storing a leaf blower is nothing like storing a hunk of steel. If you don't understand that, then really, your argument is made up of so much false logic that I have to wonder what your *real* reasons are.
I think you just don't like the job. And that's OK.
Just admit it to yourself (you don't have to admit it to me).
Again and again and again you are saying you don't like the job. And that's fine.
But you're wrong on all your 'facts' because the tool only needs four sunken female threads in concrete or asphalt, where, in my case, they're outside on the sidewalk outside the house.
Nobody would keep it bolted in their garage so for you to keep saying that just means you want to throw imaginary hurdles in front of your decision not to use the tools.
Why can't you just admit to yourself that the tools are not the problem. The tools cost nothing compared to the cost of paying someone to do the job. The tools are easier to store than your common leaf blower is. The job is as easy as any other job you do on a car.
Your *real* reason for throwing up all these imaginary hurdles is that you don't like the job. And that's fine. Nobody told you to like the job.
But you should be true to yourself (no need to admit it to me, as I can tell from all the imaginary hurdles you throw up).
I noticed you said "you can't balance" the tire, which is too easy to refute, so I'll help you out with your imaginary hurdles by adding the one
*real* hurdle in the process.You can't *dynamically* balance the tires at home. Rest assured, you have *no problem* statically balancing them.
My tires are balanced statically to the smallest amount of an ounce. But they're not dynamically balanced *prior* to re-mpounting them.
But wait! There's more *logic* to be had.
You can easily *test* dynamic balance! Yup. It's easy.
Guess how you *test* tires that were just mounted for dynamic balance?
As you know, everyone has an opinion, so yours is as good as anyone's, but I don't think you'll find any professional RMA document backing up any opinion that says you can safely do an external repair without *inspecting* the inside of the carcass.
It's like declaring a desk is solid oak just because it has a thin veneer.
I think you have too narrow an idea of what can go wrong with a tire.
For example, I hope Clare, who I think said he replaced tires, can tell you that you can literally grab handfuls of rubber "fluff" from the inside of a tire which was driven low for just one mile.
There are *lots* of things that can be visually seen once you remove the carcass. For example, maybe there are patches in the same line of the tread that you can't possibly see from the outside?
As I said, I think you are simply cherry picking one example to try to prove a point that you're the only one trying to prove.
I will repeat the facts that nobody here has disputed:
But because we got away with it, doesn't mean I'd do it for my daughter. For myself, I might cut corners. But not for my kids. Or neighbors. Or relatives.
It all depends on your tolerance for risk.
I have to tell you something you don't seem to know which is that driving with a tire just low on air can damage it in one mile. If you're repairing the tires of your neighbor, your kids, your relatives, are you sure they never drove on it with the air pressure low?
How did they even know they had a leak?
Generally they find it flat in the morning or it screams around turns, or the car feels like it's on ice in the summer, etc., but they're not experts and often they don't know how long they've had the slow leak.
Anyway, you're trying to defend a practice that nobody else is defending the way you're taking it.
I will repeat that *all* of us have reported we've successfully fixed a tire from the outside, just like we've all likely bought desks that were oak veneers.
But solid oak is better just as inspecting the tire and repairing from the inside is better.
For you to say this is just an *opinion* that the repair from the outside is as good as one from the inside is fine, but it's not going to hold water except in the most cherry-picked narrowest of circumstances which you concoct but which don't often happen in the real world to a tire that you're seeing for the first time.
Yup. Every one of us has had that experience. I've mostly seen screws for some reason; however the effect is the same for a screw as for a nail.
I've even seen a pebble wedge in a tread and finally penetrate the carcass, as I have seen glass do, and a bit of bent steel.
Most have been driven on for tens, hundreds, thousands of miles (who knows), before they actually penetrate to the inside and cause the leak that is finally noticed.
Nobody disagreed with you that *all* of us have successfully used the rope plugs just as most of us have bought oak veneer desks.
Solid oak is better.
I last bought tires in May. Next set will be at least 2 1/2 to 3 years from now. I use my battery leaf blower four times this week. We use the side entrance to the family room and I clear the leaves often so we don't track them in.
I tried battery operated outdoor tools, such as the battery operated 8" chain saw from Home Depot, where, I'd recommend NOBODY ever use that thing as it's just a waste compared to a decent Stihl or Husky gas powered chainsaw.
You see? That's why you want advice from experienced people.
In my experience, a battery operated leaf blower wouldn't last anywhere what I'd need it to last, unless I had a *lot* of batteries. Mine is a two stroke Echo packpack which I've had for about 5 years since the last one broke (the last one was that long-tube type with an electric cord, which just didn't cut the mustard).
I generally use the Echo twostroke a few times a year, and when I do, it takes usually two tanks of gas to do the job that I let pile up.
In fact, I probably use the leaf blower almost exactly as often as I use the tire changer, although I never offer to blow leaves from my neighbor's lawns and driveways and roadways, so, that might be a difference.
Not really. I've never seen a simple nail that goes straight in the tire near the middle of the tread cause damage that's beyond the simple hole. Have you?
You're unbelievable. Even when I agree with what you just said, you come back with more BS.
Where did I ever suggest otherwise? I even cited as examples that the shop doesn't know what a customer did with the tire. Personally, I know what I did with the tire in question and that would not include driving it for a mile with little air in it so it gets destroyed.
Again, I know if I've ever patched the tire before, it's my tire, I'm not a repair shop where idiots that drive tires flat for a mile or otherwise abuse them bring them in and I don't know what they did to it.
I haven't cherry picked a damn thing.
Keep repeating yourself if it makes you feel good.
You do as you please. I'll bet those same "professionals" would say that you should not be doing tire patching and plugging at home because you're not a "professional", aren't trained, don't know WTF you're doing. It's irresponsible and unsafe for you to be doing this as a service for neighbors. Your going to KILL someone!
Define "low".
If you're repairing
If you're repairing the tires of your neighbors, relatives, are you properly trained? Are you a professional? Do you have insurance? You're gonna kill someone! That's what your professional tire experts would tell you.
I see, so now you speak for everyone. You said you have plugged tires and it's OK. I plug a tire and I'm bad. Go figure. I can give you lots of cites from all kinds of people on the internet saying they have plugged tires using the rope plugs, driven them for years, never had a problem. So, obviously there are people defending it. And if it's so damned bad, why are YOU doing it? Why don't you go start a campaign to stop stores from selling those rope plug kits?
Again, speaking for everyone? Who exactly is "all"?
Coming from the guy who says he has done the same thing. Go figure.
Maybe you should move or stop driving wherever you pick up so much stuff. I've had about two, maybe three flats in 15 years.
Speaking for the whole world again?
I don't have a problem with that. If I can invest and make more money not buying little used tools it seems smart to me. While you are sweating in July changing a tire, I sit in my air conditioned house while the shop does it for me. Need an oil change? While you crawl under your car I use the loaner the dealer left me when he picked up my car to take for service. When you buy the right car, it costs no extra though I'm sure it is included in there.
Lie? No, I don't like doing those jobs but I do what I have to. I do woodworking as a hobby and it is more fun than cleaning a closet.
OK, I can invest in real estate and other investments if you want to take out the stock market.
Give ten people $100 each and it will be used 10 different ways. some will waste in on cigarettes, others a nice dinner. You can buy a $100 tool that will save you that over the next 20 years, but I can turn that hundred into 200 in that time and spend $40 of it to save doing labor. At the end of 10 years you have a tool and save maybe $40 or $50 while I have the original hundred, an extra 50 or so and did not skin my knuckles trying to get a tire off a wheel. I guess we have different lifestyles.
I don't doubt your numbers. She should do some better shopping and probably could have had a much better price.
Well you came close. I do get up rather than lay in bed all day. I have good income, yet have no job. I don't need one. I don't always make $2400 in ten minutes but certainly can in the time frame you are using.
I bow to your superior knowledge. I feel fortunate just to be able to read everything you write, knowing it is correct and no room for other points of view. You make the world a better place and I thank you for that.
We'd all be more enlightened if you just stopped making up excuses for why you don't like to change tires.
You don't have to like doing any job, you know.
But you shouldn't at the same time throw up imaginary hurdles which never existed just to persuade yourself that you don't like the job for logical reasons.
All you have to say is that you don't want to get your hands dirty. Or that you don't want to take the time to learn how to do the job right. Or that you don't want to risk the danger of breaking a fingernail.
We'll all understand those reasons since we make them all the time.
For example, How many people on a.h.r cut down trees near stuff they care about? How many people on a.h.r replace their own garage door springs? How many people on a.h.r replace their own manual transmission clutch? How many people on a.h.r align their suspension in their own garage? How many people on a.h.r dig their own trenches and fencepost holes? How many people on a.h.r replace their own gas-fired hotwater heater? How many people on a.h.r compress springs to replace their shocks? How many people on a.h.r pave and blacktop their own driveways and walks? etc.
All these jobs (and more) entail equipment, knowledge, and risk.
I posit that the *knowledge* is far more formidable than the equipment and risk, because knowledge negates the risk and cost of the equipment.
We'd all be more enlightened if you just stopped making up excuses for why you don't like to change tires.
You don't have to like doing any job, you know.
But you shouldn't at the same time throw up imaginary hurdles which never existed just to persuade yourself that you don't like the job for logical reasons.
All you have to say is that you don't want to get your hands dirty. Or that you don't want to take the time to learn how to do the job right. Or that you don't want to risk the danger of breaking a fingernail.
We'll all understand those reasons since we make them all the time.
For example, How many people on a.h.r cut down trees near stuff they care about? How many people on a.h.r replace their own garage door springs? How many people on a.h.r replace their own manual transmission clutch? How many people on a.h.r align their suspension in their own garage? How many people on a.h.r dig their own trenches and fencepost holes? How many people on a.h.r replace their own gas-fired hotwater heater? How many people on a.h.r compress springs to replace their shocks? How many people on a.h.r pave and blacktop their own driveways and walks? etc.
All these jobs (and more) entail equipment, knowledge, and risk.
I posit that the *knowledge* is far more formidable than the equipment and risk, because knowledge negates the risk and cost of the equipment.
I don't have any problem whatsoever with you not wanting to (do things); but then why do you argue so much about people who (do things), especially on alt.home.repair, of all places to be a naysayer?
And yet, you can make far more money on the stock market than you can woodworking.
My only point on your stock-market analogy is that anyone who makes that is simply proclaiming that they don't want to (do things).
They're not lying to us. They're lying to themselves. It's classic.
I don't think you understood a word I said, if you change "stock market" to "real estate". You don't see that the argument is that you don't want to do the task, and not how much money you make in the time it takes you to do the task.
Otherwise, nobody would do anything on alt.home.repair for heaven's sake. We'd all be selling real estate instead of fixing things.
What you're saying is the classic argument of someone who doesn't want to do the job. It works for cleaning toilet bowls as well as for changing tires.
It's the classic argument. We've heard it a billion times.
Every time it's used, it has *nothing* to do with the task but of the person's *dislike* of the task.
And that you dislike the task is fine. Just admit it to yourself (we already know the answer).
What's different about us is that I'm not lying to myself *why* I enjoy the thrill of being able to change my own tires at will.
By way of contrast, *every* argument you posit shows simply that you don't
*like* the task, but that you won't admit that to yourself, so you throw up myriads of imaginary barriers that are patently untrue.Well, I'm sure all of us at one point in time took the *convenient* way out, which is likely what she did. She was there. They had her tires off the car. They sold her on a new tire. And she figured she was already in the mud so why not just slosh it out to the other side.
We've all been there, and done that.
Personally, I *love* the *freedom* I have to buy any set of tires I want from any supplier (I used to use Tire Rack but Simple Tire is far better on pricing, shipping, and tax nowadays, and for the *same* tires).
The UPS guy knows me by name, and he knows *exactly* where to drop them off as no UPS driver ever didn't know a load of tires when it's in the back of his truck!
At my leisure, I chock, lift, support the car, remove the wheels, pop the old tires off, pop on the new tires, statically balance them, pop them back on the vehicle, and take it for a highway test drive.
One other beauty, but which involves risk in the rainy season, is that this freedom to change my tires whenever I want, practically also allows me to get another few thousand miles out of a set of tires, simply because I can wear them to the bones.
Realizing that slicks have *better* dry traction than treads, we can do that here where I live because it never rains for 80% of the year, but if you live in the weekly-rain areas, you can't ride on the slicks like I can.
But that's just an aside, because the screamers will scream hypocrisy that I ride on slicks if I feel like it and yet I choose to inspect the inside of a tire when I repair it.
Such is the thrill of having choices, which having the tools allows me.
This is true that you may know your car's tires since you put them on and you were the only one who drove your car, but, I have kids who drive my car, so I can't tell what they did with my tires.
If you're the *only* one to ever drive the car, then you know a *lot* more about each of those tires than anyone else does.
You can *still* have internal damage which is only visible from the inside, without knowing it from the outside; but the risk is much less for you.
If you're the only driver of the car, and you're the only one who had the tires patched, and if you've had the tires since they were born, then yes, you know a *lot* more than most people do about their tires.
Me? I just look inside since it's part of the repair process.
It's the same when the wife calls me saying she *smells gas* when the hotwater heater turns on. I go downstairs into the basement and I *look*.
Looking is a tried and true method of evaluating a problem set. It's the reason pilots walk around their airplane, isn't it?
You're *skipping* the *look* step, and that's fine. Remember, we've *all* done it.
It's not the "proper" method; but we've all done it.
I agree with you that the pros always tell you not to open your breaker panel, and not to touch the furnace, and not to do your own brakes, and not to climb on the roof, and not to risk cutting down a branch, and not to risk replacing your torsion springs, etc. when all of that can be done at home with safety in mind.
I don't know if you can find a reference stating that homeowners shouldn't mount their own tires though.
Do you know of a single reference on the entire Internet that warns people not to change their tires at home?
What are your facts on that assumption?
To all your questions, the proof is that you can ask me anything and I already know the answer.
Q: Am I trained. A: Yes. Of course. I know everything that can be found on the net, including everything that the professionals put out there (e.g., the RMA is a great resource). And I also know that almost zero tires are mounted correctly at the tire shops (for reasons that relate to business, not training).
Q: Are you a professional? A: See answer above.
Q: Do you have insurance? A: Of course. I have homeowner and liability and umbrella insurance, just like everyone does who owns a home with an attractive nuisance (a pond).
Q: You're gonna kill someone! A: I will tell you that I've watched many tire repairs and tire mounting and balancing and I've *never* seen one done by the book. Not one. I can list their mistakes off the top of my head, and you'd have to agree with me on them because they all make sense since they save the tire shop time, and time is what they care about greatly.
Q: That's what pro tire experts would tell you. A: Maybe. If they asked me questions and watched a repair, they might not.
You missed what I said. I said we all have done jobs the wrong way.
For example, do you wear goggles *every* time you use the bench grinder? Do you wear them every time you hammer in a cement nail? Do you always clamp down your work when you're using a chisel?
Now let me ask you a question ...
If you were showing your own daughter how to do that stuff, wouldn't you be more cautious about how *she* does those same jobs?
Nobody ever said rope plugs don't work in emergency situations. In fact, rope plugs are *perfect* under certain situations.
Let's take the point of selling rope plugs in stores. How do they sell them? As an *emergency* tactic, right?
You're on the road, in the middle of nowhere, and you have a flat, but the spare is flat, and you need to get going. What do you do?
Rope plugs are *perfect* for that situation, aren't they?
There's no way you can do a proper job on the side of the road; but you need to get going. So rope plugs are perfect for that task. Hence they should be sold in stores and kept in the trunk.
I have some in my own trunk. The fact that people use rope plugs in emergencies is a good use of them.
I've only fixed them from the outside when I didn't have the tools to fix them from the inside, but now that I have the tools, the only times I'm gonna fix a tire from the outside is when I'm stuck on the road and the spare isn't working for whatever reason.
Once you've done it right, you just feel better about it. It's the difference between a half-assed job and a great job.
You've felt that difference *many* times for *many* jobs, I'm sure, haven't you?
Let's get to the meat of this conversation.
Why do you argue against that?
I'm not making up excuses There is no sensible payback for me to buy the equipment. Far easier to have my local tire shop do it. Fast and fair prices. Not worth my effort.
Nothing imaginary. It just does not make sense for me to do it. The investment in time and money does not make it worth while.
I pay people with that knowledge to do it for me. I had knee surgery but I let a surgeon do it though it seemed fairly simple to DIY.
There are a lot of jobs I don't like to do. Some I do anyway, others I pay to have done. There are other factors too. I just had a bedroom painted. i could have easily done it myself, but, I paid someone to do it because he needed the money to pay his electric bill. I saved doing labor, his electric bill is paid.
I've done many things that I don't like doing for various reasons. I do it because I can save a lot of money or because I can to a better job. It just does not make fiscal sense for me to chnge tires. Your numbers don't work.
Nope, nothing to do with like or not. Is jst makes no sense while you seem to orgasm over it. Go ahead and enjoy it.
I'm happy for you.
Fantasy or fetish. Where is the line?
Having bulky eqpt that you have to buy and have around and that can only be used for tires, isn't imaginary.
The fact that the eqpt has to be bolted to the garage floor isn't imaginary. Do you leave it bolted? Screw around bolting and unbolting it only when needed?
The fact that after you're done mounting tires you then have to balance them isn't imaginary. You have a dynamic balance machine too? So, now what? The fact that many tire shops have good prices and offer free rotating and free balancing for the life of the tires isn't imaginary either.
I didn't see Ed say anything even close to that.
[snip]
What I find amazing as I sit here at look back at this thread is the simple fact that "Smartest Man in World" no doubt Hillary's 2nd cousin, twice removed, had to stoop to asking via this group a question that the answer(s) to he a) either already had solved to his satisfaction or b) didn't want to listen to. I mean, he's a self-professed expert in this endeavor and yet he slipped in that he didn't know the best plugs available and wanted us to opine on that as well. Needless to say, anyone who ventured to name a specific brand would have re-energized his contentiousness.
Then again, I could be wrong and he's just a freakin' troll. In any event, "feed him fish!"
How difficult is it to store a chunk of steel about as bulky as car ramps are? I keep the car ramps, chocks, & bead breaker in a pile outside in the open air, along with shovels, picks, iron bars, etc.
If you don't have room for such things, then you don't have room for anything. Do you live in an apartment on the 10th floor, for example?
Those kind of people without any room for tools don't belong in the same category as people who own tools. It's pretty simple stuff.
Now I know you're just making everything you say up. That's proof. HINT: How many times in this thread have I already answered that question!
Again, this question is merely proof you haven't read a single post. I've answered that question already many times in this thread.
You just want to argue. I don't.
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