On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 6:52:23 PM UTC-4, Blake Snyder wrote:
I see, so you finally followed the simple directions in the instructions
and bolted the tire changer to the floor. Funny you did that, if there
was no need to do it. I guess pajamas and a pallet didn't work so well
I don't have a pallet and you can add that to your list of things to
store. I suppose you'll tell us that a pallet is like a leaf blower,
just one of those things people typically have around. I've changed
tires on a floor mounted machine, I can imagine how well it must
work trying to do it on a pallet.
I told you it had to be bolted down. The instructions say so too.
You do listen to safety instructions, right? You claim to listen
to tire manufacturers and tire shops, so why not listen to the
folks in China who built that HF tire changer? Oh, wait, you just
told us that you did finally drill holes in the floor to mount it.
And I'm the one who's been wrong? ROFL
Me too. I'm getting in my pajamas to go look for a pallet so I can
buy me one of those tire changer things.
You seem to be the only one here who has actually *done* the job, so your
thoughts echo mine, with the exception that you keep talking about those
spoons which are no longer needed if you use the right tools.
The only time I need a spoon (and note that it's singular) is when I have a
tire were the last bead won't get over the rim, usually due to a shallow
drop center (which I'm sure is a term you're very well acquainted with).
In reality, with most drop centers, you don't even need the spoon
(singular), but it's helpful to use the spoon to add a bit of friction
since everything is slippery with dish soap on that very last bead.
Of the 7 bead operations, only one takes any knowledge of the geometry:
1. Break the first bead (easily done with a mechanical bead breaker)
2. Break the second bead (child's play usually - feet can do it usually)
3. Remove the top bead from the rim (child's play usually)
4. Remove the lower bead from the rim (child's play usually)
5. Pop the lower bead back on the rim (do by hand - no tools needed)
6. Pop the upper bead back on the rim (requires drop center knowledge)
7. Seat the beads (child's play usually, but sometimes finicky)
Mine is typical, I'm sure. Table saw, chop saw, drill press, bench grinder,
compressor, 16-inch vise and anvil, 6-inch vise and anvil, a billion
different hand saws and routers and drills, etc. and outside are the steel
tools such as all the garden tools (rakes, shovels, tree saws, etc.).
The automotive tools are the ones everyone has, which are chocks, ramps,
stands, bottle jacks, transmission jack, floor jack, motorcycle stand,
etc., where the main tire-changing tools are
1. Bead breaker
2. Tire mounter/dismounter
3. Static balancer
None of these tools are any more or less bulky than the rest of them.
None are more or less costly than the rest of them.
And none are used more or less than the rest of them (with wide margins).
Yup. I think we all must have tens of thousand invested in equipment, e.g.,
just the router bits equal hundreds of dollars alone, let alone the drill
bits, and the impact tool attachments, etc.
The one thing I don't have is that snow blower!
We get a dusting of snow maybe twice in a decade.
Yup. Wet/dry. I have so many vacuum pool pumps that it's not funny.
My car ramps are outside, as are most of my tire-changing tools.
It only rains here in the winter, so 80% to 90% of the time it's dry.
All my garden tools are stored outside (picks, rakes, shovels, etc.).
In the end, I ordered a set of the plugs but I had to just guess.
I hate guessing.
But sometimes, you just can't find anyone with experience in even a simple
and basic repair job such as repairing tires the correct way.
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:25:09 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
The big question is WHY DO YOU WANT TO BUY THE DAMNED THINGS ONLINE?
Buy them locally from local tire repairshop. If they want to give them
to you, contribute to their coffee fund.
I know from personal experience that "snyder" translates to
"stubborn" - but the condition isn't incurable or terminal.
You bring up a good question.
There are so many tire shops, that in a day, I could likely collect, for
free, a five-years' supply.
Truth be told, I'm embarrassed to get the freebies.
I'd rather pay for them.
Nonetheless, the real answer to my question is that nobody knows any better
than I do, since anyone can do a google search (and I already did that
before I asked the question).
I can't find them locally for sale in small quantities.
So the only way to buy them is on the net.
Ebay, Amazon, and others sell them.
I was just asking whose is best.
I suspect, like car batteries, they only have very few manufacturers so
maybe it doesn't matter in the end.
But I would be just guessing at that.
And I don't like guessing.
replying to Blake Snyder, Iggy wrote:
I'll 2nd Unquestionably Confused. No patches make your tire bulletproof and they
weren't originally made to be so either, you wouldn't be patching them. Use both
the rope and the interior patch and each repaired leak will outlive the tire.
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:14:14 GMT, in <
This is good advice. It doesn't answer the question, but it provides an
alternative which would negate the need for the question. I agree.
I've done that "plug and patch" method which works well, especially after
investing in a tire knife (which is flexible skiving blade to flush cut so
that it cuts "more flush" but it's never perfect).
When I used the long rubbery plugs in addition to the flat patch, that made
a prettier patch, with slightly less "bump" but I don't have any more of
the long rubbery plugs.
When I tried that same method with the stringy "rope", it was much harder
to cut the rope sticking out on the inside of the tire well flush. So the
patch had a slight hump. No big deal, of course, but it's not perfect.
The "patch & plug" method you propose is the *only* method that you can
purchase at the local auto parts stores, and local big box hardware stores,
But I picked up a handful of those patchplugs from a tire shop who handed
them to me gratis and I fell in love with them. I'm sure if I asked again,
they'd give me another handful, but I don't want that.
I just want to find a nice source for patchplugs either locally or online.
Here are some examples:
<http://www.blackjacktirerepair.com/patch-plug-combi-units <(Amazon.com product link shortened)> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xtra-Seal-Universal-Combination-Tire-Plug-Patch-Repair-31-13-381-/162313768524
I am just asking if any of you have experience with purchasing the best?
BTW, this video is hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ-dkv8cMjQ
I can tell you an "inside patch" is not the answer.
I got a flat on the way to work. Stopped at one of many of the 'gas
stations' which still had tire service and told them, "a heated inside
patch", only! They tried twice, then did a 'plug'. The plug worked!
The 'inside hot patch' did not! I went on my way with a single
In the olden days, they use the flame-vulcanized patches, but that's before
my time AFAIK. They might still use heat vulcanization, but I read every
RMA document I could and I have many times talked to the RMA reps, where
they never recommended heat-cured patch processes to me.
The correct process is pretty simple though and works just fine.
1. Inspect the tire for the myriad things that can fail it.
(Note that this can't be done without removing the tire from the rim.)
2. Prepare the tire using all the normal methods.
3. Patchplug the tire from the inside (and test).
It's so easy to do right that the main reason people don't do it at home is
simply that they don't want to, which is just fine, but those people who
don't do it won't have the answer to the question.
Anyone can just guess.
I can guess even better than most people.
But I wasn't asking for a guess.
I was asking for experience.
The only "approved" repair for a tubeless steel belted radial tire is
a plug-patch. Period.
Yrs, a plug will stop the leak, and it will "get you by" - but it can
cause carcass failure down the road. A plug plus an inside patch is
better than just a plug - but a lot more work to do it right than just
using what is designed for the job -
This is correct.
You seem to be the only other person here who has done the job.
Hence you know that, in a lot of cases, the only approved thing to do is
throw away the tire once you've looked at the *inside* of the carcass.
Since you have *experience* that all the others don't have, I would *love*
to know the answer to one question which bugs me because I don't know the
About what *percentage* of tires are technically not repairable when people
bring flats in to the shop?
I'm curious because I just advised someone from across the country to go to
a *free* tire shop, but I warned them that the free tire repair is done so
that they can make money selling people tires after they *fail* the tire.
She asked me 'what's the chance of that, to which I said I didn't have a
clue since it depends on all these factors:
* Is there any damage to the inside of the tire
* Is the puncture too close to the edges of the belts
* Is the puncture not of the best size and shape and angle
* Is there another repair along the same diametric line
* Is the tread worn down to any single wear bar
* Is the rim out of round or gouged or otherwise unsafe
Since you seem to be the only other person who has the experience, what
would you say is the percentage of flats that come in to a typical shop
that are not repairable technically (using RMA rules)?
You have been correct in all that you say in this post.
You didn't mention (but I'm sure you know it) that you can't do a proper
repair without *inspecting* the inside of the tire.
Do you agree?
replying to Blake Snyder, Iggy wrote:
Oh I know, I was just throwing out an idea that really is just as good and is
essentially what the pros do...I do not at all agree with the pros in overly
reaming the hole, their plugs go in entirely too loose for me. I've gone years
with no leaks on those push-in plugs, they've been successful for decades.
Just make sure you're going to actually do it right and not just slather
Vulcanizing Cement all over. You must buff, cement and over-seal like the pros.
Meaning, don't get just the plugs in your link and instead go for the complete
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:44:11 GMT, in <
You bring up a great point in that I always feel bad that I have to *widen*
a hole just to put in a patchplug.
The patchplugs have a steel insert so they can go into pretty small holes,
but the process uses a reaming tool that makes the belt edges smoother than
they would be if you didn't use the reaming tool.
Like you, it always seems a little counter productive if you're trying to
fix a hole, that you first have to make it bigger.
But what you're really trying to do is smooth out the belts and to make the
hole more uniformly the "right size" for the patch plug.
I do agree though that it's sort of like cutting someone open just to
remove a splinter in that you have to *harm* the tire before you can fix
I like *that* 20-patchplug kit because it comes with the hard-to-find black
inside goop that you paint over the inside of the repair!
It also comes with the softener that you use before buffing, which is
chemically matched to everything else by being all of the same brand.
I don't use the softener because I don't see how it does anything but make
it a *lot* less work for scraping away the surface layer (which is critical
for a tire shop where time is money).
But I would use the black inside goop to seal everything up nicely!
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:17:20 -0700 (PDT), in
You do a *lot* of things by reaming the hole.
That's why it's *always* done.
Just like a doctor amputates a leg that is gangrenous, or a craftsman sands
down wood to make a repair, or an auto-body guy drills a hole before
pulling out a dent, etc., there are good reasons for being "invasive" when
you're trying to fix something.
We were talking only about the *emotion* of having to be invasive with the
The facts are that there are lots of good reasons to be invasive.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 10:28:02 -0400, in
< Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> Like you, it always seems a little counter productive if you're trying to
I think you completely missed my point.
Re-read what I wrote.
It was super clear I was speaking about my irrational emotions.
I know the facts far better than you seem to.
Emotions and facts are completely different things.
*all* your arguments were based *solely* on your emotions, for example.
Every single one.
Not one of your arguments held up to the simplest of facts.
And that's OK.
Just *know* when someone is speaking about their emotions and when they're
speaking about facts.
The post you responded to was all about emotions.
Don't contort what was clearly about emotions to try to hump me, please.
If you want to hump me, that's fine - but do it in real facts.
I bow to your superior knowledge. I feel fortunate just to be able to
read everything you write, knowing it is correct and no room for other
points of view. You make the world a better place and I thank you for
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