On Apr 30, 2023, Bob F wrote (in article<news:u2nhb7$177f$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me):
I am about the same age and I also find it "less fun" to be lying on the ground removing an oil filter bolt, but I still do it because of two great values, the first being you get better quality oil at a lower price, and the second being the satisfaction that you know the job is done right.
There are other benefits such as the time savings (an oil change is just about the quickest job that can be done on a car - even vacuuming it takes longer) and convenience of doing it when you want it done, but the main reason is better oil at a better price & the satisfaction of doing it.
If someone doesn't want to do it, they will always make up a million excuses for why they don't want to do it - which is what they do.
I almost never use the ramps because jacking up one end is almost as quick. I have four sturdy jack stands, where I always use at least two + the jack.
What I do now that I didn't do when I was younger is I wear kneepads and elbow pads, and I spread an old blanket on the ground when I'm working on the brakes or the engine unless it's drippy - and then I don't use the blankets.
You're right about that. I don't know how anyone who lives in a flat could fix anything. Just the tools alone would fill up the closets.
You almost have to own/rent a real home to work on a car.
On May 01, 2023, Cindy Hamilton wrote (in article<news:RRK3M.497515$ snipped-for-privacy@fx37.iad):
That is the point.
It's always the case when someone says they can't do something that everyone clearly can easily do, it's just that they don't like it.
They should just be true to themselves instead of lying to themselves. Nobody has to like working on a car. That's why they invented mechanics.
What they do, instead of saying they don't feel like doing the job, is they find all sorts of lame excuses for why they "can't" do the job.
That's what's wrong. The lame excuses.
The only justification they need is they don't want to do the job.
Unless all the shop does is oil changes, they're trained to drum up business, so I'm sure he'll tell you everything wrong that he sees.
And, perchance, he might even be right as he likely has more training than the rest of us do (not that an oil change requires all that much knowledge) but changing tires does require more knowledge, as does alignment at home.
There is almost nothing you can't do at home on your car but there are an almost infinite number of things you don't want to do at home on your car.
I have found that most people come up with a lame excuse like kids do when they didn't do their homework, when the only rationale they need is that they don't want to work on their car at home. Why lie when that's why?
At today's prices, a hundred dollar tire is downright inexpensive!
Simple Tire runs so many deals their discounts are like spam in your inbox though, so you will often get that same tire for 25% off (usually you have to buy four of them at a time to get the discount, which is why I said previously that you get one tire free for every four tires that you buy).
Also you can find less expensive tires with better specs if you know how to buy tires, but most people don't know how to buy tires so they buy what was already on the car as that's the only tire they know anything about.
Most people, I've noticed, are afraid to take a risk so they only buy the one tire brand that they feel comfortable with. Some people, like me, are willing to take a risk, so what I do is find a tire with a better spec at a lower price and I buy it.
But most people are too afraid to step off the dock into the unsteady boat.
It depends on the car on the oil changes. Some are putting the shrounds under the car and you have to remove them. Then Toyota came out with the canaster type similar to the ones back in the 1950's. I do not drive much so I get the oil changed and the car inspected at the same time.
On the other hand, modern cars are so close to the ground it is impossible to get underneath unless you have a lift or use jack stands or ramps.
Then there are the idiot engine designers that put the drain plug on the side of the oil pan instead of in a recess on the bottom, so the oil shoots out sideways instead of falling straight down into the catch pan. Chevy, I'm talkin' 'bout you!
On May 01, 2023, Ed P wrote (in article<news:OnP3M.2610114$ snipped-for-privacy@fx17.iad):
You really need to learn about what you're talking about. Costco also sells Mobil 1. It's just not currently on sale.
Besides, people who say you have to buy the brand name almost always, if not always, know absolutely nothing about the product they're buying.
Clearly you do not. Do you have any idea who makes most oil that is on the market in the USA?
Of course. To you, since you don't know anything about motor oil, you'd buy only the brand name because you don't know any better. You don't know anything about oil, so, you're afraid to buy anything but a brand name.
There's nothing wrong with you not knowing anything about motor oil.
What's wrong is when you tell others, who DO know something about motor oil, that your way of blindly buying motor oil is better than buying oil by the specifications of the oil (which are printed on every can of oil).
People like you are why brand names cost so much more than the others.
Everything you say shows you don't know anything about motor oil.
You don't know anything about oil so most of the information would be meaningless to you, such as the longevity under test which you can dig up for most motor oils. I've done that in the past but it's too much effort.
Now I rely on the API and SAE specs alone, and even then, the viscosity doesn't matter in the summer and in the winter, it depends greatly on where you live. Anyway, they are the same for almost all motor oils out there.
When we were kids, there was SB (there's really no such thing as SA, although you'll find it out there, but not for vehicles), SC, and maybe SD, and then year by year, they went to SE and then SF, and then little by little they went to SG, SH, & on & on to the new fangled variants of SP.
If you never change your oil, that's when it really matters what oil you use (e.g., Castrol has always fared well in the longevity testing), but if you change your oil, it doesn't matter what oil you get as long as it's the right spec for your car (which is in the owners manual for that reason).
The "right oil" for your car is what the owners manual says is the right oil, and that won't mention a brand (although BMW does that on their oil filler caps).
You'd have to go out of your way to find a bad oil. It's almost impossible. The reason you buy by brand name is you don't know anything about oil.
And that's OK. Just be true to yourself before you try to tell me how you buy motor oil.
It's fine that you buy motor oil by brand name alone. But don't look down upon someone who doesn't blindly buy motor oil like you do because you're afraid to look on the container to find almost all motor oil meets (and usually exceeds) the specifications that the OEM stated.
Note that the OEM cares about emissions so they purposefully specify a lower-weight oil (viscosity) than they would normally do, which they do to lower friction - so you can make your own viscosity decisions, as it's not really all that important except in cases where the weather is extreme.
On May 01, 2023, Scott Lurndal wrote (in article<news:FwP3M.405972$ snipped-for-privacy@fx40.iad):
I saw a quick response and I was worried you'd jump on me for saying "oil filter bolt", which I realized after I sent it I had meant oil filter and oil pan bolt, but yeah, they're close to the ground.
But the jack stands put them about, oh, what? Fifteen inches high? I don't want to measure my belly but I am hoping I'm oblong so my 35 inch waiste should put my belly button at just a tad below that fifteen inch mark.
I don't know why they do that since part of the fun of owning a vehicle is being able to work on it at home. Luckily, all my oil pan drainage bolts are easy to get to, although I admit I don't always replace the copper washer every time.
One thing I forgot to mention about motor oil when I said it's almost impossible to find a bad oil is that you can get the "wrong" oil.
For example, you can buy "diesel" engine oil, which is GREAT in terms of wear protection, but it will kill your cat.
Interestingly, they put all over the box and oil container how GREAT it is in wear protection, but in tiny print in the hardest spot to locate it, they might mention that it's poison for your cat.
And it's not like the equipment is just a special wrench. The equipment is big and bulky, needs to be bolted to floor and then you either have to unbolt it and store it or leave it there. And you can't do dynamic balancing with the minimal equipment either. When you can get a tire mounted and balanced for $25, not something I'm going to do. And I do a lot of my own work on cars.
I've yet to see a case where an engine failure or other problem could be attributed to the oil, as long as it was the correct type for the car and the oil was changed at the proper intervals. I get a good laugh on the car forums, the gearheads that are buying expensive synthetic oils for their BMWs, then changing it every 3000 miles. They change the transmission fluid, differential fluids, etc every 10K miles too. Makes them and the companies selling the stuff feel good.
You don't need an excuse to choose to not do your own oil changes. There are advantages, like not having to collect the oil and take it somewhere in your brand new car to properly dispose of it, keeping a dirty oil pan container around I suspect many of the DIY types just pour it in the back woods. And it's not like it's real expensive paying for an oil change, I see prices here all the time that aren't much more than what it costs for oil and a filter. I've done it both ways at various times.
You got that right. I didn't know if people would realize what I meant by "grab the bazooka" but you clearly understood what it is, and what is for.
Sometimes, it's just so much easier to have the right tools to do the job. You can get away with NOT having it, but then you need at least two people.
You have one person underneath keeping the bottom bead in the drop center. Then you have another person on top wheedling the top bead into the rim. You must also have air running continuously screwed into the open valve.
It CAN be done without the bazooka (or without the MAF kaboom trick), but it's EASIER to do with the bazooka on those problem tires if you're alone.
It's the LT tires, with that high profile stiff sidewall that are the hardest to get the initial seal in the drop center that need the blast.
If you already own some tools, then the cost will be lower, of course. For most people the "extra" tools will cost about $100 per tire ($400).
HF sells everything you need though, which, using rounded numbers costs you $100 tire mounter (throw away its bead breaker which just gets in the way) $100 bead breaker (you have to extend it for the larger diameter wheels) $100 bazooka (if you work alone, you'll need it on some brands of tires) $100 static balancer (this tool works amazingly well even as it's low tech) $100 floor jack (you want it to go as high as you can but 15 inches is ok) $100 jack stands & chocks (height is usually more important than bearing) $200 compressor & hoses & fittings & electrical adapter (mine is 220VAC) $100 torque wrench (the only time it's needed is at the final cinch'up)
There are minor tools but those are the three major tools that you'll need. Minor tools, offhand, are all around ten bucks so I'll just say that below.
$10 schrader valve removal screwdriver (required) $10 tire valve removal & replacement tool (more useful for rubber valves) $10 air gun (you sacrifice one air gun to screw onto the open tire valve) $20 two long additional tire irons (useful, but not always required) $10 strong spray bottle (don't use a Windex bottle which always breaks) $10 vise grips (required because the long tire iron twists in your hands) $20 pack of wheel weights of various sizes and types (stick on works ok) $20 plug and patch kit (best to get the combined patchplug type) $10 wheel weight on/off tool (optional - it just makes you feel better) $10 assorted curved picks (to remove rocks and glass from between treads) $10 assorted patch tools (scrapers, pizza wheels, chalk/grease markers) $20 set of four all metal tire valves (bolt in types are my favorite) $20 special tool for the BBS wheel covers in some fancy alloy wheels
Let me know if I missed anything as that's just off the cuff from memory.
Obviously there's a serious (about $400) investment in tools that you don't already have and which aren't useful for any other job, while the rest of the investment will be useful for almost any job you do under the car.
At easy numbers of $25 saved per wheel, it would take 16 tire changes (which would take a few years) to start making money on the tools bought.
Almost nobody has only one car in the household, but if we assume easy conservative figures of a new set of tires every four years and no flats, that's about 16 years for one car. For a two-car household, that drops in half to 8 years. For a four car household (I don't feel like dividing by 3 in my head) that should take about 4 years to start making money doing it.
There are other advantages and disadvantages, such as the satisfaction of being self sufficient versus the dissatisfaction of having to take a shower, but there is no case anyone could make against cost as you will always end up making money on your tools given how much it costs to pay people.
The main case people would have for not doing the job is they don't want to do it or they don't have the room for the tools, and those are both valid.
On May 01, 2023, Ed P wrote (in article<news:DIQ3M.200602$ snipped-for-privacy@fx02.iad):
I saw that you focused on the better and not on the cheaper part.
Look back at what I said, and don't just pick _half_ of what I said. I said you can do oil changes better _and_ cheaper if you do it yourself.
I said that every time because that's the end analysis.
I'm sure you can buy worse oil than what they put into your car. But you can also buy better oil than what they put into your car.
It all depends on what oil you buy and what oil they buy. For sure, they can put in better oil if you don't put in the better oil.
The worst faux pas you can hold me to is the "and" should have been an "and/or" & I would agree with you on that objection you raised to my words.
My assumption was you have no idea what _they_ are putting in but you _know_ exactly what you are putting in.
In the end, you are correct that their oil can be no better than your oil. I concede that as I wasn't trying to say that as an iron-clad result.
You can certainly do better though if, for example, you want synthetic and they put in the regular oil, as your "and cheaper" part can include the Costco synthetic Mobil 1 on sale if synthetic is what you consider better.
BTW, synthetic is better, IMHO, but only because it's slippier and it lasts longer, but if you replace on regular intervals, the lasting longer isn't all that important anymore.
When you do it yourself, YOU choose the oil and the total cost is always going to be less in the long run than if you went to a shop to do it.
If you don't like doing your own oil, then you'll find all sorts of other reasons, but those who don't mind doing it will always win out in the end.
I'll correct my statements that you can do the job yourself better "and/or" cheaper than the shops (which depends solely on what they and you buy).
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