What have been the worst home handyman accidents you've had,or seen so far ?

[John Rumm]

"bog" being a UK slang expression for toilet ;-)

[tim.....]

And other countries don't do that?

I betya they do.

tim

[J. Clarke]

Uh, what does "the number of murders by gun crime" have to do with "letting the mentally ill own firearms"? Are you suggesting that committing murder is prima facie evidence that one is mentally ill? If not then what are you suggesting?

[J. Clarke]

>

You might find

to be of interest. Among other things, they point out that in the UK the national crime reporting system has only been in place since 2002. In the US it has been in places since some time in the 1930s and it is generally accepted (at least among those who have been involved with the development of that system) that it initially badly underestimated the amount of crime that went on as the local departments on whose data it relies didn't bother to file reports--now it's mostly automated and tied into the National Crime Information Center. Still, some of the issues raised in the UK report also apply to the US--if nobody reports the crime then it doesn't go into the system for example.

Would be very interesting if the difference in US and worldwide crime rates turned out to be an artifact of the reporting.

[Norminn]

clipped

This thread has wandered way off topic, but the issue is important. There is great political benefit, in all kinds of arenas, for crime not to be reported. I have had a couple of experiences with that issue - once, a cop outright refused to acknowledge that damage had been done per my complaint. On two occasions, I was very intimidated - not normally easy to accomplish - by hostile cops when I called re: assault. Given the racial issues lots of cops have (and which I have personal knowledge of), if I was of another race I probably would have worse treatment to relate. I once had almost sacred respect for police officers, but those who are deserving have been hard to find in recent years. And I'm not a loud-mouthed juvenile delinquent - far from it :o)

[Ed Huntress]

It's not a clause (except to a lawyer), because it contains no predicate. It's a phrase, and the sentence is a type called "nominative absolute." Nominative absolute sentences tell you nothing about the dependency of the clause ("the right of the people..." etc.) upon the phrase. It may be a dependency, or it may be incidental. Often it's a sufficient but not necessary condition.

Nobody ever gets this right, so don't feel badly about it. And it wouldn't be the first time the FFs wrote something that was intentionally ambiguous. The whole purpose of the Bill of Rights was to get the anti-federalists to calm down and ratify the Constitution. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gunner does identify the source of the idea of our 2nd Amendment as a "right," however, which is English common law.

-- Ed Huntress

[kfvorwerk]

The perfect machinists clothing. No sleeves, no tie, not loose, only comes in black and made in extra large. What more can you ask for?:

?sc=2&category=28Karl

[Sam E]

And where's the part of that which says a "well regulated militia" is the ONLY reason you can own a gun?

I expect you don't know, and are just mindlessly repeating some nonsense you heard somewhere (from someone who doesn't know either).

[willshak]

on 9/12/2007 5:09 AM Gunner said the following:

311.(a) says the militia shall consist of 'able bodied males' between the ages of 17 and 45, and 'females who are members of the National Guard'. I read that as males not in that age group, or females not in the National Guard, are not members of a militia. That's what it says, whether or not one disagrees with it. (2) refers to 'members of the militia', which is defined in 311 (a)

From

"Although the terms militia and minutemen are sometimes used interchangeably today, in the 18th century there was a decided difference between the two. _Militia were men in arms formed _to protect their towns from foreign invasion and ravages of war. Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. _Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers_. Typically 25 years of age or younger, they were chosen for their enthusiasm, reliability, and physical strength. Usually about one quarter of the militia served as Minutemen, performing additional duties as such. The Minutemen were the first armed militia to arrive or await a battle.

Bring on more insults.

[willshak]

on 9/12/2007 10:48 AM Sam E said the following:

It is the section that gun proponents quote. If there is another section that outlines gun ownership other than the 'militia, please cite it.

I haven't insulted anyone over this issue. Why is it that you fell the need to do so?

[F. George McDuffee]

This is simply another red herring for a yet another "gun grab."

The idea of armed and trained citizens united in well-regulated and organized local militia units strikes terror in the hearts of politicians and political functionaries everywhere.

In many states this is specifically prohibited unless they are under the control of the political authorities as is our so-called national guard.

As in most things, if the politicians and bureaucrats are against it, it is the best thing for the people.

FWIW -- as soon as it became obvious that using national guard troops to augment the border patrol / ICE was having very positive effects on reducing illegal immigration, they were removed from such duty. Why are national guard units on border security duty a good thing in Iraq but a bad thing in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California?

Unka' George [George McDuffee] ============ Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

[David G. Nagel]

The Constitution of the United States of America contains in the first TEN amendments FOUR references to "PEOPLE". Why is it that the second reference is interpreted by the anti gun fanatics to mean the GOVERNMENT and the other THREE references to mean them?

A clear and concise answer please, no prevarications....

[David G. Nagel]

Ed;

The Founding Fathers may have been unnecessarily ambigous in the phrasing of the Second Amendment but the Resolution of Congress that became the 2ND Amendment upon ratification by the states was NUMBER ONE on the list of Resolutions passed by Congress and sent to the states.

Dave

[Gunner]

>

When you can provide cites from major media in those countries themselves admitting it, please bring it forth.

Gunner

[Ed Huntress]

Oh, I doubt that. Is there some historical support for that, say, in the first years after our independence? There sure were plenty of armed citizens around.

Say, George, have you gotten any surprise calls from the NRA lately? I got one last evening, intended for my wife. How they got her on the list I'll never know. It was either AARP or the NJ Education Association.

Anyway, this sweet young thing named Angel asked if I had time to hear from Wayne and I said sure, I hadn't talked to him in nearly 20 years and it would be a pleasure. Wayne came on the phone and started talking but he didn't let up when I talked back. He acted as if he didn't even hear me. I guess we had a bad connection.

Wayne was running on about some new bill, H.R. 1022 I think, that the Democrats from Hell had introduced, which must be something awful. If I heard him correctly it allows registered Democrats to slit my throat and disembowel me if I'm caught with a gun, or something like that. Anyway, Wayne was talking a mile a minute (the guy still has *some* energy) and then he left. Another sweet young thing came back on and seemed surprised that I was still there. She said she needed for me to take out a five-year membership for the limited-time price of $100. I started to tell her about why I had not renewed my NRA membership but it obviously didn't interest her, so I changed the subject. I wanted to know how everybody at HQ was doing, and how the gun-rights battle is going.

I don't think she was equipped to answer that but she filled in by offering me something if I re-upped; it sounded like some kind of Swiss Army knife. I haven't had one of those so I was intrigued. Then she threw in the real coup de grace: a gen-you-wine, rosewood-handled NRA knife. This excited me. I didn't even wait to hear if it was a sheath knife or a folding knife. I just pictured myself whipping out a knife with "NRA" on the side at a client meeting in NYC, cleaning my fingernails with it while discussing market shares or something.

So I told her OK. This appeared to nearly knock her off her seat. I had my choice of magazines (no Playboy, unfortunately, and they didn't offer Harper's or Mother Jones), so I went for trusty old _American Rifleman_. It's time for me to catch up on the new technology, especially those

1,000-yard woodchuck guns. I could sit on a hill near hear and cover half the county with one of those, which may be just a fantasy but it's something that definitely would be easier on my legs than walking all over hell. I would have scoffed at those things 20 years ago but no more. I'm tired of walking.

Before she hung up she asked if I wanted to contribute another $15 specifically to take out a political contract on Hillary. I told her don't push it.

I wonder how long before I get the Swiss Army thingie and the real prize, my NRA knife? I can't wait.

-- Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

I'm not sure what that means. Was it the shortest one? It seems like it must have been the shortest.

-- Ed Huntress

[Gunner]

Since you wish to make claims regarding the 18th century....

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." ? George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788 Militia

"The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, ... all men capable of bearing arms;..." ? "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic", 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Smith).

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." ? Tench Coxe, 1788.

Oh..btw...the 45yr age restriction is unlawful, according to Federal ADA laws.

In practice..the age restriction is ignored. Keep in mind that in

1778...45 yrs of age was close to the average life expectancy, so that was considered close to elderly.

Oh..something else you should read...

"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." ? Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize winner and author of The Gulag Archipelago, who spent 11 years in Soviet concentration camps.

Since you have difficulties with written word....perhaps pictures may be of assistance to you...

[Ed Huntress]

Here we go! Hang on, folks, it's the battle of the Gun Quotes, and it's going to be a bumpy ride...

-- Ed Huntress

[tim.....]

>>

>

Aw come on.

Everyone knows that the press exagerate (in the UK anyway) and you want me to bring you press reports as *proof*!

tim

[Gunner]

Crom but thats soooooo gay......geeze....