Look: not even Antonin Scalia agrees with you. Saw him interviewed on TV
last night. As strong an abortion opponent as he is, he stated plainly
that he thinks Constitutional guarantees to protection extend only to
what he called "walking-around" people, not unborn fetuses.
Washing one\'s hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:23:55 -0700, David Nebenzahl
The problem is..is that the sole difference between what you call a
fetus and a baby is its location. By your defintion..its a fetus
inside the womb, and 20 seconds later, its a baby after exiting the
Your ilk really need to come up with a better definition of fetus. Try
one based on viability outside the womb.
A fetus in my world, is a polywog that hasnt developed human
charectoristics yet. The moment it is fully formed, it becomes a baby,
no matter if its in the womb or not.
I should note, that Im Pro Choice. And I carry it further than you
do. If you are allowed to murder your baby before its born, I believe
you should be able to murder it after its born. All the way up to the
age of Majority, where it becomes an independant entity, rather than a
parasitic tissue mass.
And if it moves back into your basement, its fair game again as it
reverts to being a parasitic tissue mass. Like many posters here in
"Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies
and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich
I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Egad, how progressive of you! Not like when I was a boy!
Oh, wait, I see. A bit of moderation. Glad to see you hadn't
abandoned all that had kept the Roman Empire strong in its heyday.
That had been Roman law for most of the Republic and the early days of
the empire: the Pater Familias could have any son killed for whatever
reason, regardless of the boy's age. Interesting detail, though.
Apparently, you couldn't just "bump off" an adopted son. The Law gave
him a more protected status. Makes a kind of sense.
Anyway, Remember, the ACLU has fought in court and won the right
to starve useless mouths. So they have served some useful function -
for certain values of "useful."
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries
Invoking one of the Supremes is useless in the discussion.
4/9ths of them couldn't even interpret the 2dn Amendment correctly.
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The generally accepted definition of a "human being" is one that is
viable, i.e. able to live outside the womb on its own. The legal
definition varies from state to state but that is generally what is
used. If the fetus is far enough along to survive but hasn't been
delivered, some states consider it a viable human and a person can be
charged with murder for killing it.
You know what I find interesting about that? That was pretty much the
definition in western society and churches for close to 2,000 years, before
the 1840s or so (1869 for the Catholic Church).
Somebody started thinking, around 1820 and for the next half-century, that
all those earlier Christians were wrong, and that the system of rights that
evolved from English common law into the "rights of Englishmen," and
eventually our Bill of Rights, also was just all wrong on the subject.
"Quickening," "doctrine of delayed ensoulment," etc. -- it all said about
the same thing. Abortion is acceptable until what we would now call sometime
around the middle of the second trimester.
The Catholic Church, despite what has been said by Cardinal Egan and many
others, only opposed abortion unevenly before 1869. And the reason they
opposed it was not because of the life of the fetus. It was because an
aborted pregnancy was prima facie evidence of sex that was performed for a
reason other than procreation. The mother was assigned penance because she
sinned in sex, not because she committed homicide. Period.
As usual, I'm stunned by the depth and variety of knowledge on RCM.
This time, I, for once, might be able to add something that perhaps
was unknown to the group:
In traditional astrology, the horoscope (natal chart) was to be made
for the moment when the baby took its first breath, because,
supposedly, with the first breath, the soul entered the body. I don't
think the astrologers would have dared to hold this opinion if it had
been in opposition to the doctrine of the Church.
Unfortunately I can't give sources for this, as it was a long time
since I came across this odd piece of information.
Here's what the Bible says about a fetus - Jeremiah.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest
of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
I'm sure you could find similar in the Quaran.
Fortunately the framers of the United States Constitution didn't create a
You know, like Iraq has now done with our blessing and Iran did when they
threw out the Shah.
You aren't an advocate of Sharia Law for America are you?
Sarah Palin has just about exhausted her usefulness Ed.
She will increasingly become Albatross II along with Albatross I, Mr. Bush,
Albatross Zero, which is where we count forward from these days, is John S.
I had breakfast with Mike this morning. We have a commercial property in
Redondo. Actually, he does, I just hooked it up.
The thing is upside down but what I caught Holy Hell for was not being more
forcefull in my comments when he and I sat down some months ago. HUH?
I don't think my advice to get over to the nearest Bosley clinic was
The Eggs Florentine at the Beverly Wilshire are still GREAT though.
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