Didn't think of bypass flow. However, if there is no leak, the bypass flow won't go anywhere and the meter should not run. I'm sure faucets and toilets don't leak.
Another thing I noticed after the first post is that if I shut off the main valve for few hours then turned it back on, I could hear water gushing through the pipe. That indicates the pipe was empty, right? Can I assume that the pipe from the main valve to the lowest toilet valve (faucet valve is always higher than toilet valve if on the same floor) is at least partially empty? If that assumption is good, that would indicate at least one leak is between the main valve and the lowest faucet valve.
Noticed in other report there are, you say, ball valves--that's pretty unusual but higher probability then that they are really sealing than the typical contractor-install. Would still do the above test to be certain, but looks less likely than previously figured, indeed...
There's still the outside service...and it sounds like perhaps there's a split of the feed before the inside(?) isolation valve. What about a pool/spa (perhaps now abandoned), irrigation system, etc., ...?
It's the cyclic nature you're seeing that seems most unlikely is "just" a simple piping leak.
Agree, that would indicate that the water is somehow leaving the pipe on the apt side of the shutoff valve. If the leak was in the supply line entering the house, before the valve, when you turn it back on after awhile there should not be the sound of water rushing in to fill the pipes. It sounds like whatever is leaking or taking the water not only takes whatever is leaking past the shutoff valve, but also some of the water that's already in the pipes. Which would suggest to me that whatever it is, it's more likely on the lower levels. If you had something leaking at the highest faucets I don't see that partially draining the pipes when the shutoff valve is off.
I'm curious what we're talking about in absolute flow rate when isolated both the low/high rates. That could possibly lead to some klews as to what would be that volumetric capacity.
And, has the "true isolation" test been run; granted if they're all ball valves they have far better chance of actually holding than the more typical gate valve...
What's the size(s) of the various lines out of curiosity?
I'd start by figuring out which valves work and completely shut off and which don't to further isolate it. I'd also consider replacing the valves that don't shut off completely, depending on how hard or easy that might be. It has other benefits, sooner or later it's going to be a problem with some other repair. If the water is going into the building, then it's very likely going down a drain. You'd think water would be noticed somewhere if it's leaking. Has he tried listening to the drain pipes with the water off? If it's real slow, probably wouldn't work. But if it's a drip into the right kind of pipe, might be able to hear it and further identify where it's coming from. I'd also look for likely places where a pipe could go outside, feed something else, or sillcocks, etc.
On 25-Oct-17 1:01 PM, trader_4 wrote: ...[old conversation elided for brevity]...
I'm in agreement w/ all the above, too, altho the curiosity of emptying isolated line indicates the outflow exceeds the inflow past the isolation valve(s) or there would be no empty volume to fill...that makes the question of just how much water are we talking in absolute flow rates of interest to figure out what could be that big (or small, depending on what that number might be).
Then, there's still this thing that he says it cycles and at a pretty rapid clip indicates to me the flow path, wherever it is, must actually be pretty sizable and that it's driving force hasn't gone away with the isolation...I'd like to figure out where that is coming from.
I'm also in agreement and pointed out it's beginning to sound more and more like there's an unknown side tap on that line between the isolation valve(s) he knows of and the supply -- I'd also already thrown out a spate of ideas on what that might just be including the outside end uses (in use or perhaps previously abandoned).
I've got an unused set of feedlots/pens here on the farmstead that are on a spur...that valve(*) is closed off, but is, unfortunately, not a ball valve and leaks pretty badly so the system is pressurized. There's been a failure out there a time or two in the old supply lines to the tanks that have had to patch...at least I do know where those are as we put them all in; if were a purchased property like a rental no telling what formerly might have been...
(*) And, yes, this one is deep-enough and in such a location it's just not as of yet been worth the hassle to replace even though it really, really, should be because it's a branch of the main that feeds the house and there's no isolation to it that doesn't also cut the house off when something does happen...
That almost would seem to have to be the standing head of the upper floors or a still-sizable pressure head from a leaking valve (or a still-undiscovered other source path, mayhaps? There's actually a loop in the feed to the house here from the well owing to how lines were conjoined at one time lo! those many years when the second house was moved out when folks moved to "the big house" after grandparents passed and they refinished it and then sold "our" house and it was moved (back) to town).
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