Wall oven junction box location.

"John Grabowski" wrote in news:515ab66f$0$19559 $ snipped-for-privacy@cv.net:

Huh? The box is shown *behind* the oven! Obviously it is not accessible until the oven is removed!

No, it can't. It requires that boxes be "accessible without removing any part of the building". A wall oven is not "part of the building".

Reply to
Doug Miller
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oven has been there for at least 12 years.

oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom. I've been running into wall ovens with a depth too great to fit in the space, with a junction box sitting directly behind them. I think this is why these directions are showing the box above or below the oven. The ovens I've been seeing have just enough space behind them for the greenfield whip to fit, but not the junction box. The manufacturer calls it a " suggested" junction box location. I typically cut an opening in the sheetrock and drop it down inside the wall

Reply to
RBM

I put in a Kitchenaid double oven couple years ago. It had an area where the box was supposed to be and the area was directly behind the ovens in the lower part. The oven cabinet didn't go back as far in that lower area, which was quite large. I would think that contrary to your comment, most ovens are designed to have the box behind them. Often you don't have easy access to areas above or below. And the ovens I installed came with a flex BX type cable that easily slid in with the ovens.

Reply to
trader4

ide quoted text -

Why does it need to be accessibly without removing the oven? I installed a Kitchenaid double oven couple years ago and there was no such requirement. The box location was a general area behind the ovens. They used a flex BX type metal conduit that was long enough so you connect it, then slide it in. Seems like that would be a common method to me.

Reply to
trader4

The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

ith heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.

t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

That brings back memories.... I said earlier that I installed a Kitchenaid double oven a couple years ago and the box location per install instructions was in an area behind the oven. But thinking back, I recall I had to move the box slightly and I also had to set it back into the drywall by 1/2" instead of having it surface mounted, otherwise the box would have stuck out too far.

Reply to
trader4

e old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

h heat from the oven or something else?

ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetr ock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a sq uare. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet h as drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junct ion box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal shea th encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure h ow to make the connection then though.

Reply to
stryped1

The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

ith heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.

t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

o about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the shee trock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood botto m is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

ction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sh eath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

how to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

See the reply I made to RBM just a few minutes ago. His comments made me recall that I had this exact problem with a Kitchenaid double oven. Looks like they make them expecting the box to be recessed into the drywall by at least a 1/2". All I did was cut out an opening over a stud, then fasten the box directly to the stud. That put the box back into the wall by 1/2" and still leaves the cable connector coming out flush with the drywall. I also has to move the box slightly, but had enough cable to work with to do it.

Reply to
trader4

old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

Another possibility is totally recess the box in the wall, get a cover plate with a 1/2" knock out, and connect to the plate with a 90 degree connector. In that location heat is a question.

Or move the box to the cabinet below. You are then working at the back of a smaller space to connect the oven (while it is in place), which may be harder than connecting the oven when it is out. If there is not enough space behind the drawers, mount the box as above.

If the wiring is from above it may be easy to move the box up.

You may be able to move the box to an adjacent space as in John's post.

Reply to
bud--

e old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

h heat from the oven or something else?

ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well. What would you do? Recess the outlet where it is inside the wall? Mov e it up higher but still within the oven cavity?

The only problem with putting it into the cabinet below is as I said, the c losing of the drawers. The issue with putting it in the cabinet above is th e fact that there is an opening between where the wall oven goes and the to p cabinet. This "opeinging" is where the microwave is. The BX would have to go through the microwave area and be visable, which I am not too crazy abo ut. (Unless I can figure out a way to fish it through the wall itself and o ut the top cabinet easily.)

Reply to
stryped1

e old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

h heat from the oven or something else?

ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Just trying to find a good, correct solution. Right now I just dont underst and that requirement for the junction box to be "accessible"

Reply to
stryped1

This is another one where the OP posted the same question to alt.engineering.electrical.

Reply to
bud--

and rec.crafts.metalworking, oddly enough. i guess the OP doesn't know, or care, about crossposting either.

Reply to
chaniarts

The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

ith heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.

t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

stand that requirement for the junction box to be "accessible"- Hide quoted text -

If you put it behind the oven, it's accessible by removing the oven. All that takes is 4 screws. Take a look at other oven install guides and you'll see that having the box behind the oven is very common. Inaccessible would be putting it inside a wall and then drywalling over it.

Reply to
trader4

e old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

h heat from the oven or something else?

ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

If I cant put it behind the oven and have to put it below the oven in an in side cabinet, is there a minimum hight requirement for a junction box even if it is inside a cabinet? I am going to try to make the back wall behind t he oven work, however with the 90 degree nipple sticking out it will be clo se. The other option would be to install it six inches lower inside the cab inet. However this brought up my question on any height code.

Reply to
stryped1

The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

ith heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.

t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

inside cabinet, is there a minimum hight requirement for a junction box eve n if it is inside a cabinet? I am going to try to make the back wall behind the oven work, however with the 90 degree nipple sticking out it will be c lose. The other option would be to install it six inches lower inside the c abinet. However this brought up my question on any height code.- Hide quote d text -

Let's start over again. Right now the existing box is somewhere on the back wall where the oven would go, directly behind it, correct?

I went back and looked at the install diagram again. It shows two locations for the electrical box. One is on the wall below the oven, between the runners. It shows runners as being 2 x 4. What size runners can/will you use? Any reason the box can't be lowered and put between the runners?

The other location clearly shows it in the area directly behind the oven, right at the top. IT shows the bottom of the acceptable box location at 23 7/8 above the runners. The oven overall height is given as 28 1/4. That leaves you

4"+ room for a box anywhere along the top of the oven. Any reason it can't go there?

Based on what I see now, I would tend to agree with those that said they want to keep the box away from the heat locations. Putting it in either of those spots does that. The very top is where the electronics are, not the oven itself and if it's between the runners, it's also out of the heat area.

Reply to
trader4

No, it can go anywhere inside the cabinet below -- no minimum height requirement.

Reply to
TomR

The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

ith heat from the oven or something else?

locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.

t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

le oven)

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ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximatel y 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My id ea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of th e cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way b ack.

Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the c urrent oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I inst all where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, you r concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, w ould this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the low er back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

I really applogize for the questions but want to make sure it is absolutely right before working on it this weekend. There is a verse in the bible tha t says something to the effect that "there is surety when there are many ad visers". (Or something like that) I guess that is why I ask so many questio ns.)

Reply to
stryped1

. The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if meta l studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved jun ction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners ".

with heat from the oven or something else?

way to do it?

le locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or belo w the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

single oven)

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ely 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from t he left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywo od bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4" dimension up, as in the install pic. If so, that gives you 3 1/2". Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually

4"? If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area below the oven. If not, and it were me, and I could not do it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from doing it that way. Provided of course it all fits. Surely that small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.

idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just

1/2", no? And I said previously just cut out an opening in the drywall in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" The box is almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no? Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. I did exactly that with mine. With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2" there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way in the wall.

current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into th e new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wa ll as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.

stall where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.

. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, y our concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the l ower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven, ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. Did you see my other post? You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. Of course that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get the length.

So, I think you're choices are:

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only

1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the high area behind top of oven

Reply to
trader4

e old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

h heat from the oven or something else?

ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

I think I miss measured. The box sticks out more than 1/2 inch too far.

There is no room to install the runners on their edge. So my intention was to install them flat.

The "cabinet" below has cabinet doors, however the inside has two pot and p an drawers that slide out. I will have to measure but I think their still m ight be enough room behind the drawer for a junction box.

Unless you guys think it is a heat or other problem, I am going to purchase a 90 degree and face plate for the box and measure to see if fully recessi ng the box will allow enough room. If not, I guess the easiest thing would be to install behind the drawers below. (If there is enough room.)

I can install it higher, and am willing to do that if you think it will be a better installation. However, it will require more work to fish the wire. I am totally by myself so anything I do like that is typically twice the w ork.

Reply to
stryped1

h). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if me tal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustabl e?

ox is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off t he opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved j unction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runne rs".

do with heat from the oven or something else?

t way to do it?

able locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. Howeve r, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or be low the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating th is box "above" the runners.

o put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properl y, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

a single oven)

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ately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The ply wood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

y idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out o f the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the w ay back.

he current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I describe d, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

I think it was just stated that the 2 x 4 runners have to go laying flat. That eliminates options A and B. So to make it compliant with the install instructions, you're left with C and D. The other option that doesn't follow the instructions would be to recess the box in the wall and have most of the box be in the area directly behind, where it's not supposed to be. That would be my last choice and if I did it that way, I'd locate the box at the bottom so about half of it is below the oven. With a metal box in the wall and only half of it behind the very lower part of the oven, I would not think it could get hot enough that it would be a problem. The conductors they are supplying inside the flexible metal conduit, which it has, right?, are probably rated for the higher temps behind an oven. That cable is going to be directly behind the oven, where they don't want the box to be. They may be concerned that some older cables that serve the junction box may not be rated for the temps that could occur. But it would seem to me that with the box recessed in the wall, it's already about

2" away from the back of the oven. And the metal box will dissipated heat into the wall cavity. So, in my view, it's not a problem. But then I didn't design the thing either and have no idea how hot it actually gets back there. You could temporarily hook it up, fire it up, and see.

If you had caught this before you bought the oven, I'm sure you could find one from another manufacturer that has more flexible box locations. But you wouldn't even know where the existing box is until you pull out the old oven.....

Reply to
trader4

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