ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
h heat from the oven or something else?
ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
One more thing, I went back and looked at the picture. Even though it does not state it, does it look like in the diagram that the lower junction inst allation option has to be 5 inches below the top of the 2x4 runner?
The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
ith heat from the oven or something else?
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.
t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
s not state it, does it look like in the diagram that the lower junction in stallation option has to be 5 inches below the top of the 2x4 runner?- Hide quoted text -
Yes, I agree. I didn't see that previously. So it has to be either
5" below the bottom of the oven or else way up within about the top 4" zone or higher. Who makes this oven marvel?
nch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
rs. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combusta ble?
box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the run ners".
o do with heat from the oven or something else?
est way to do it?
ptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. Howe ver, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet prope rly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
s a single oven)
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imately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches fr om the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The p lywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.
My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.
the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up int o the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of th e wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.
I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)
y is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. Howeve r, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I descri bed, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in t he lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.
BTW, did you see this in the instructions:
"NOTE TO ELECTRICIAN: The three power leads supplied with this appliance are U.L. recognized for connection to larger gauge household wiring. The insulation of these three leads is rated at temperatures much higher than the temperature rating of household wiring. The current carrying capacity of a conductor is governed by the temperature rating of the insulation around the wire rather than the wire gauge alone."
So, it's as I thought. The wires from the oven to the junction box are rated for higher temperature than the typical romex or similar that you would typically have going to the box. So, it looks like while it's OK for the flex conduit they supply to be directly behind the oven, they are concerned with the wiring in the junction box being exposed to the higher temps directly behind the oven. And I think they are being conservative, because there is everything from new romex to cloth covered stuff from 50 years ago and they don't know what you have.
So, I guess you are left with two options to do it by the book, high or low.
ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
h heat from the oven or something else?
ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
I will say it is very thick wire and the house was built in the 90's. So, I f I install it below the oven into the drawered cabinet, I am guessing it w ill only be 3 inches below the top of the runner. Is this acceptable? (The picture looks like it says 5 inches). Also, for some reason it wants the box 10 inches from the left side of the cabinet again, which I cant do without some difficulty. (another stud bay. )
ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
h heat from the oven or something else?
ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
How cruicial do you thin the 5 inch down and 10 inch over requirement are?
inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
with heat from the oven or something else?
way to do it?
acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
single oven)
formatting link
approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.
idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.
current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.
install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)
is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.
That's not how I read that at all. To me (the hint is the comparison to household wiring *SIZE*) it's a notice that "these wires are smaller than what an electrician would wire the house for, but that's OK, they're engineered that way."
I don't agree with your assumption, thus the conclusion is suspect.
4 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
nners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combu stable?
ent box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an appro ved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
e to do with heat from the oven or something else?
e best way to do it?
cceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. H owever, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locati ng this box "above" the runners.
ded to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet pr operly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
t is a single oven)
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roximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) Th e plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.
ck. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.
ing the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.
If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current locatio n.)
ntly is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. How ever, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I des cribed, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents i n the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations for the box either:
A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven
B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher
Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. If it's not that then why not just spec that you can put the junction box anywhere behind it?
inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
do with heat from the oven or something else?
best way to do it?
acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
single oven)
formatting link
approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.
My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.
the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.
install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)
is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.
To eliminate interference, perhaps. The text you posted certainly doesn't make that case.
The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. Nothing is touching and convection will get everything warm.
ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
h heat from the oven or something else?
ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
If I decide to put this in the cabinet drawer below with the pot and pan dr awers, is this a problem? (Becasue pots and pans can slam into it)?
On Apr 3, 6:48 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote>
What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't even go? Answer: none
The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven. And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get nearly as hot either. That upper area is where the electronic are. It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics section typically has a fan to keep it cool.
The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
ith heat from the oven or something else?
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.
t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
drawers, is this a problem? (Becasue pots and pans can slam into it)?- Hide quoted text -
If it's a drawer, how can pots and pans slam into the junction box? Drawers around these parts have 4 sides, I can see a problem with the drawer being so long that there isn't room behind it for the box, which is what I would think would be the problem.
ld oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal st uds would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the ope ning and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junctio n box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
h heat from the oven or something else?
ocations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below th e runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
These "drawers" are slide out slabs. They do have 4 sides, but they are onl y 2 inches or so tall. (pots and pans if not stacked correctly can stick ou t past the back side if that makes sense.
The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?
s located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the o pening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junct ion box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".
ith heat from the oven or something else?
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, o ne picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this b ox "above" the runners.
t the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, b y teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
nly 2 inches or so tall. (pots and pans if not stacked correctly can stick out past the back side if that makes sense.- Hide quoted text -
With a steel box I don't see it being an issue, as long as the drawer or something isn't slamming into the cable, eg romex going into it.
Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted. The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove typically has a fan to blow air through it. Why would you expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as hot as that directly behind the oven itself? I had my double oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn yourself. And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a clean cycle that gets twice as hot. The metal at the top was much cooler.
What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation for the specific box locations called out. The one you offered, "interference" well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as dumb as dumb gets. If the box were just barely below the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no interference. The oven would slide right in. Yet the manufacturer says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. I can't say for sure the reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've heard that makes sense.
Bullshit, Trader. You're already well on your way.
Good grief! Heat rises. It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry. If it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.
You don't either! You're *GUESSING* that the issue is heat because the phrase "high temperature insulation" was used to justify smaller gauge wire. *Read* what *YOU* posted, Trader!
Everyone can note who got nasty here first. As usual, it was you. And there are plenty of regulars here who know your style too.
You get caught in something dumb. Then, instead of just saying "Oh, you're right", you start with the insults. In this case, you claimed the locatins given could be due to interference. Interference, really? They give a location that is a minimum of 5" below the bottom of the freaking oven. 5" below where the oven doesn't even go. Now thinking that is interference, well that is indeed dumb.
So, following that faulty logic, if I take an electric heating element and put it inside a cabinet, it's going to be just as hot at the the top of the cabinet as it is directly in front of the heater? You can't possibly be that stupid.
If
I don't have an alternate explanation. I just have the heat explanation as a possibility. That was also offered by others here, not just me.
You're *GUESSING* that the issue is heat because
uoted text -
I'm guessing the issue is heat because the specific locations given are away from the hottest areas of the oven. So far the only thing you've offered is "interference" which was so dumb you haven't mentioned it again.
The wall oven that I have (that came with the house) has the metal junction box mounted on the back wall of the cabinet below the oven where pots and pans are stored. The pots and pans can bump into the junction box and the metal-clad cable from the oven to the box. Seems like no issue to me.
You're a damned liar, Trader. Your pattern repeats, endlessly.
Ever hear of radiant heat, Trader? I didn't think so. The issues are
*VERY* different.
So you made one up out of thin air and continue to espouse it with authority and whine like a damned lefty when called on not being able to read a simple paragraph. That's you in a nutshell.
On Apr 4, 6:22 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote>
What lie have I told here? You're just pissed because you made the dumb "interference" claim. A claim that is obviously dumb, because there would be no need to have the box 5"+ BELOW the bottom of the oven. Just having it 1/8" below would put interference out of the question. But you're obviously math challenged.
No, they are exactly the same. Heat radiates from the back of the oven to whatever is behind it. Like the electrical box, if it happens to be there. There is more heat directly behind the ovens to radiate, to conduct if it's actually touching the box, and to convect to it. There is less of that heat at the top of the oven in the last 4+ inches, where the electronics are located. They also have FANS there to take away the heat. Think man!
And now following the usual process, you start with the "lefty" remarks. I didn't make anything up out of thin air. In fact, I'm not even the one who first suggested that the box mounting locations may have been chosen by the oven manufacturer to keep it out of the hottest areas.
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