How do you snake a kitchen sink & how to remove a corroded steel nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?

[Danny D.]

Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink? Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)? Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out? Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

Sorry to not have a picture as I had just returned from celebrating Easter when my sister called me saying her kitchen sink had suddenly overflowed during cleanup - so I rushed back to snake it but without my camera.

Turns out you can't snake a kitchen sink (at least I don't know how) because one side has a garbage disposal while the other side has a built- in "cage" of some sort (which I guess comes apart from underneath).

So, instead of snaking it, I looked for that little trap door on the bottom of the trap curve, but the pipes are all plastic which had no trap door. So I simply unscrewed the J pipe under the sink, only to find 4 inches thick ground up eggshells blocking the water flow. No problem, I thought - but then the real problems showed up when I tried to put it all back together.

The horizontal plastic pipe AFTER the J pipe is supposed to be screwed onto a 1960's vintage steel threaded 1.5" pipe that juts out of the wall only about 1/4".

Turns out that steel horizontal pipe is badly corroded. The plastic pipe after the "J" which fits onto the horizontal pipe has female threads, but the male threads on the steel pipe are gone - so it's only a press fit right now. I see a lot of caulking around it - so I'm assuming it was this way for a while but now it leaks (I didn't have any caulking with me and all the stores were closed today).

So, what I'd like to ask is advice. Again, I apologize for the lack of pictures. I'll snap some tomorrow as I told my sis I'd fix it for her in the morning.

My plan?

I have no idea, but, I might first need to cut a five inch (or so) hole in the back of the kitchen cabinet plywood with a 4" angle grinder just to SEE what's there so I can get ideas for the repair.

If I see a 1.5" diameter "nipple", I might try to unscrew it - but - I can't imagine what TOOL will unscrew a nipple because there is no room to get a pipe wrench on it since it sticks out so little from the back cabinet wall.

If I can't unscrew the nipple, then I will try to put some kind of compression fitting on it (I guess).

Also, I might look for a "J" trap replacement that has an actual TRAP in it so that we don't have to disassemble it again the next time my sister puts a few dozen egg's worth of eggshells in the disposal unit.

My questions? Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink? Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)? Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out? Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

[bob haller]

You MIGHT be able to cut the screw in fitting but your probably better off opening the wall and after supporting the top end cut the T clear, snake the line you may find its a rusted mess, and begin replacing the entire line perhaps to the basement....

I had this sort of problem in my bathroom, after piecing it 3 times I bit the bullet, opened everything from above the T in the batroom to the basement. Earlier owners had replaced areas too. after looking at what a mess I got a plumber to replace it all, including the cast iron in the basement that was nearly rotted thru......

plumber spent the day, improved the slope a lot in areas. 900 bucks well spent.....

a good bit of the line was copper, I got over a 120 bucks for the scrap copper line which was full of crud, and so thin it could be crushed with lite hand pressure.

[bob haller]

go all plastic with a p trap that can be opened in the future

[Danny D.]

It's already all plastic from the sink to the nipple sticking out of the wall. I will try to get LARGER diameter plastic though (so that it doesn't clog up again) and one with a trap that can be opened.

But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking out?

[nestork]

How does one snake out a kitchen sink drain?

Where I live, in Manitoba, the local plumbing code requires that there be a clean out on the vent/drain pipe that the sink empties into.

So, in this diagram:

[image:

Our plumbing code would require that there be a clean out located on that vertical pipe labeled "individual ventilation pipe" a few inches above where the trap arm attaches. That way, a plumber can run his snake into that clean out while water is running in the sink to carry whatever the snake cuts off the ID of the drain pipe away. In my opinion, it's stupid to put the clean out in the trap arm the way it's depicted in the drawing because there normally won't be room for a wye there, and it's located where it creates three more connections that could possible leak. In my way of thinking, putting the clean out in the vent pipe above the trap arm is the smarter way to do it cuz you'll never have water leakage out that clean out if it's located there instead.

1. Do you suggest larger diameter plastic "J" pipes with a trap door?

If by "J" pipe you mean a "p-trap" and by trap door you mean a clean out at the bottom of the p-trap, then that's not the route I'd take. A 1

1/2 inch P-trap should be big enough to prevent anything from clogging up that trap.

If you have the room, I would remove that rusted nipple and screw in a piece of 1 1/2" PVC or ABS pipe with a male thread adapter cemented onto it. So, the male thread adapter will screw in where the nipple is now. Then, glue a short piece of ABS or PVC pipe into the downstream end of your P-trap. Then connect the two pieces of PVC or ABS pipe with a Fernco coupling like this:

[image:

That way, you can always remove the p-trap to clear it without having to worry that it's going to leak when you put it back in. If it does, you just glue up a new p-trap and put it in. Without that Fernco in there, if the p-trap leaks at it's middle union, you gotta start unscrewing it from the tee in the wall.

1. What tool spins off a 1 1/2 inch steel nipple when only 1/4 inch sticks out.

You need something called an "internal pipe wrench", like this;

[image:

It consists of an externally toothed wheel that turns on an eccentric shaft. You turn the toothed wheel so that it you can slide the whole tool into the ID of the nipple, and then turn the tool counter clockwise. As you do that the externally toothed smaller wheel swings outward to grip the inside diameter of the nipple, and the harder you turn the tool, the more the wheel's teeth bite into the ID of the nipple and turn it in the direction you're turning the tool.

The internal pipe wrench in that picture is what's commonly available for 1/2 inch steel or brass threaded piping. You can buy or rent the same thing for 1 to 2 inch threaded piping, and one is shown below:

[image:

But, you can't explain how the thing works from looking at the correct picture above. Check to see if Home Depot rents these things. If not, most tool rental places should. In the mean time, try to put some penetrating oil on the threads of that nipple to make extracting it easier. And, if it wuz me, I would phone up some of the major plumbing wholesalers or plumbing companies in your area and ask them if they'll borrow you a 1 1/2 inch NPT tap to clean up the threads in the tee in your wall if you put down a $100 damage deposit on it. That way, you can clean out all the crap that's accumulated in the threads of the tee in the wall over the years. Some tool rental places might rent these too.

1. Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded steel nipple.

No. compression fittings are made for 3/8, 1/2 and 3/4 inch COPPER pipe, which will have a different OD than threaded iron pipe.

If push comes to shove, you may have to cut the back wall of the cabinet out, then the wall around the nipple and heat the tee that nipple is threaded into with an acetylene (or perhaps propane) torch to expand it and break the nipple loose from the tee.

Welcome to the wonderful world of home ownership.

[Vic Smith]

I never saw a kitchen P-trap with a built-in clean-out. Sound like trouble to me. Usually the sink drain basket size and sink line size determine drain trap piping size.

1 1/2' is common and enough. Your rusty nipple goes into a 1 1/2" T in the wall. That has vent pipe above and sink line below.

I've always done what you already did. Remove the trap and clean it. Then if you want to snake the sink line the snake is easily fed into the wall fitting. Disposals and dishwasher drains just make it a bit more work.

Internal pipe wrench.

Or pull the cabinet so you can get at it with a regular pipe wrench. I ran into a rusty 1/2" water supply nipple that my helper broke off, and no way to get a wrench on it. I ground an old chisel so it would cut into the pipe when I hammered it in. Used a wrench on the hex chisel shank to turn the nipple out. Don't know that would work on

1 1/2". Depends on how tight it is. Besides that, it sounds like you have a coupling on that nipple, since it's female threads showing. The common setup here is the 1 1/2 male nipple threads poking through the wall. A 1 1/4" drain slips into the stub and is connected with a slip joint compression nut/washer on the male threads. ! 1/2" uses a compression nut/washer too, but the drain pipe isn't slipped into the wall stub, but connected end-to-end. Not sure all the terminology is correct, but that's how it works. You might look into using a Fernco connector on the stub showing, and not have the work of removing/replacing it..

[Danny D.]

That's interesting! How are we supposed to clean them out then?

Oh. OK. Makes sense. All I had known was the current size clogged from a woman doing normal kitchen chores.

Should I be worried about twisting the rusty nipple and ending up damaging the T in the wall (which would be difficult to get to because the built in kitchen cabinet sink is in front of it).

OK. I guess that explains why there was no way I could get a snake into that kitchen sink from the top.

Ah. I had never seen one of those before! Hand Tools > Plumbing Tools > Plumbing Specialty Tools RIDGID Internal Pipe Wrench, 1-2 In Cap, 4 1/2 L Internal Pipe Wrench, Capacity 1 To 2 In, Overall Length 4 1/2 In, Steel With Sliding T Handle and Knurled Jaws, Jaws Expand By Eccentric Action and Are Reversible For Various Sizes, Holds Closet Spuds, Bath, Basin and Sink Strainers Through 2 In, Used To Install or Extract 1 to 2 In Nipples

Nor these: GENERAL Pipe Wrench Set Internal Pipe Wrench Set, Pipe Capacity 3/8 to 1 Inch, 4 Pieces, To Remove Frozen Pipe

[Danny D.]

The cabinet is tiled in, so, that would be a ton of work! (I'd rather remove the entire back by cutting it out! :)

I must have explained badly as the PLASTIC horizontal tube after the P trap is what has female threads.

The 1.5" diameter rusted nipple has MALE threads (not many, but my fingernail can barely feel them on the 1/4" that is sticking horizontally out of the back of the built-in sink cabinet).

Googling for Fernco came up with PERFECT options for a clamped on fitting! It's like a rubber car radiator hose! I like it. It probably needs more bite than the 1/4" of rusted male nipple threads sticking out, but if I cut a bigger hole around the pipe in the cabinet backing, I might gain an inch of pipe to fit the Fernco on.

Thanks for that advice. Tomorrow, I'll head off to Home Depot to pick up a Fernco and I'll look to see if they have the internal pipe wrenches!

I'll snap pictures for you to see the results.

[trader4]

P-trap with clean-out is a common item.

Either using the clean-out or if it doesn't have one, then you have to take it apart. Taking it apart not only is more work, but may introduce new complications, as you found out.

Maybe. Or it could be a waste pipe coming from another source, and continuing on it's way down.

Yes. It depends on how old it all is and what shape the rest of it is in. Usually in that kind of situation, you can torque it without much concern because there usually isn't much place for the pipe in the wall to go. But if it's old and failing, yes, more of it could fail.

If the steel nipple is still in serviceable shape other than the threads, an alternate solution would be to leave it be and use a Fernco coupling. Fernco is basically a section of rubber hose with stainless steel clamps that fits over the ends of two pipes, thereby joining them. But you'd have to open up the cabinet/wall enough to get a short screwdriver in to tighten the clamps.

For opening the wall, I'd use a drywall saw or similar, or a sabre saw if you can get it in there, instead of an angle grinder.

[bob haller]

After beingg thru TWO of these I have found its better to cut the back wall of the cabinet out, remove the drywall in a large area around the T, and inspect the drain line going down, if its bad at all replace everything.

I know this is a LOT of work but then it never happens again!:)

Or do a patch job and do it again in a short time:(

[Danny D.]

I'll look at Home Depot today for a p-trap with a clean out because the best way to fix something is to put the money into the parts (and not into the labor, which is DIY).

Yes. I'm a believer! If I can find a p-trap with a clean out, that's what my sis will get!

It's a very small house. She recently bought it after the divorce - so she's on her own again. Kids all gone so it's just her. Nothing is above the kitchen (it's only 1 floor).

That is what I'm worried about.

This seems the perfect solution if I can get enough meat exposed on the end of the steel nipple by cutting away at the cabinet backing (which appears to be 3/4 inch plywood).

It is a tight fit, but I'll bring all the saws I can with me. One thing I learned, is when I traveled to her house (about 20 miles away from my home), I needed a LOT more tools than she had in her garage (just screwdriver stuff) that her ex husband had left for her. Thanks for the advice! I will snap pictures today to pay it forward, and post results, good or bad.

[21blackswan]

think of a Snake as only a temporary fix, if you need drainage now [you won't get most of the blockage out with a snake]

then think of a longer-term solution -- replacing current under sink pipes [plastic sounds good]

marc

[voodooblue]

Get the largest snake you can find. A copperhead should work well. Then toss a mouse in the drain and let the snake chase it.

Huh????

My wife can spin her nipples without any tools. But hers are at least

10 inches diameter and stick out at least 12 inches. They spin forward and reverse, from 27rpm to well over 5000rpm.

If your nipples are corroded, you need a new YOUNGER wife. Contact a lawyer!

You need more than a camera, you need to call the Department of Homeland Security. That's a flood and they need to investigate. Likely they will demolish the house and provide a trailer house as a replacement.

[Danny D.]

Nice diagram!

It helps me anticipate and compare. In my sister's case, the horizontal cleanout is a few feet BELOW the kitchen sink because the kitchen is on an outside wall. I sent a 75 foot snake into that cleanout, but, of course, it did nothing because it doesn't go UP into the kitchen right above it.

Also, the diagram shows TWO threaded fittings on the "P pipe". But I only have one threaded fitting; the other is glued and is only threaded at the sink itself about a foot above the trap.

Luckily, my sister's house is as you would like it. That cleanout is actually OUTSIDE the house (just below the kitchen window and off a bit to the side). The cleanout juts outside the outside wall.

My sis didn't maliciously clog the p trap, and I wish I had a picture of the 4 inches of ground up eggshells that I fished out of the trap, but, certainly it couldn't handle a batch of Easter eggs! :)

Today, at Home Depot, I'll try to see if I can replace with as big a pipe as I can get in there.

This is a very useful idea and I will see if that will fit with the room that I have (not much) between the P trap and the vertical steel pipe in the wall.

Thanks for all the advice! I will post pictures later today as I'm getting ready after dropping the kids off at school.

[trader4]

What nonsense. Just because you have to snake a drain pipe means you have to replace it? Plenty of drains get clogged for one reason or another, having nothing to do with the pipes needing to be replaced. In this case, sending egg shells down the drain is the cause.

[Danny D.]

I bought a Fernco & one of each of all the nipple sizes today:

But, neither Home Depot, nor ACE, nor Lowes had nipple extractors anywhere near the needed size:

So, I have the $75 internal pipe wrench on order.

Need to find a time to work on it as things came up today. Will report back when I get into the kitchen again (not my house, so, it's not as easily accessed as I'd like).

[Danny D.]

BTW, it's a royal pain loading up the trunk with the "expected" tools, as I don't want to get stuck again without the right stuff...

[Stormin Mormon]

I bought one of those sets that you pictured, to remove part of a broken nipple from a home heating boiler. That, and a considerable bit of heat from two mapp torches did the job. After a while.

But, neither Home Depot, nor ACE, nor Lowes had nipple extractors anywhere near the needed size:

So, I have the $75 internal pipe wrench on order.

Need to find a time to work on it as things came up today. Will report back when I get into the kitchen again (not my house, so, it's not as easily accessed as I'd like).

[Stormin Mormon]

[dennisgauge]

That is a colossal waste of a perfectly good $75 for a perfectly useless to ol in this case.

You do NOT want to try extracting that nipple with an internal pipe wrench. You are only setting yourself up for an even bigger job as you chase broke n drain pipes up and down the wall cavity until you finally give up and cal l a plumber, which you should've done in the first place.

The nipple is corroded and will crush easily with some big pliers. Once you collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for t he new nipple.