This is why we do things ourselves, and BUY GOOD TOOLS!

[Nate Nagel]

So today, I decided it was time to take the trusty Heep over to my storage locker and retrieve my winter wheel and tire set for my car. Should take about an hour working slow to swap 'em out, right?

I should explain that this car is a 2009 model year; old for some, shiny and new for me. Was produced in 09/2008, apparently maintained at dealership by previous owner; mostly by me since. The last time to my knowledge the wheels were off were when I replaced the brake pads and rotors earlier this year; they were cleaned while off and reinstalled with some copper paste around the hub protrusions, lug bolts installed dry (threads still look excellent) and torqued by me with my Precision Instruments beam-type torque wrench to appx. 88 ft-lbs. However, I did have to have my annual safety inspection done earlier this month and I took it to a shop whose owner I trust.

I started on the right rear wheel and everything pretty much went just like I anticipated. All I had to do was wipe the hub flange with a paper towel, put a little more copper paste on the protrusion, install, done.

Then I did the RF. I thought the bolts were oddly tight but thought no more of it.

Then I did the RR. Took a lot of force to break the bolts loose, heard a "crack" on several of them. Got to the fourth of five and my socket cocked to one side - MY @#$%#@ SOCKET SPLIT about 4/5 of the way up.

So now I have two winter wheels/tires and two summer only 19s on my car, one corner is jacked up in the air, and now I have to run to exchange my @#$%^ socket because a) apparently even the shop that I trust overtorques lug bolts with an air impact and b) "Husky" brand sockets are SHIT; I'm not a small guy, but I still should not be able to split one open using it correctly and only applying arm strength on a normal length breaker bar. This is the second Husky brand socket I've broken; the first I thought was a fluke, but two is a pattern. I'll exchange it on principle, but the one that will live in my socket holder will come from Sears or Lowe's (or will be a better brand such as S-K or Snap-On.)

I'm not sure why that one is Husky to begin with; most of my stuff is Crapsman that I bought ages ago while I was in college...

nate

[notbob]

Almost everyone's tools are now import junk. Car-Quest is Chinese, as is True-Value. Napa is from India. S-K and Proto are still Made in USA, but they cost like it, basic combo wrench sets starting at $100+.

nb

[philoÂÂ]

I recently retired after a 38 year career as a field service engineer.

The *only* original tools I had left were my Sears Craftsman socket set.

I kept them and turned in a set I had in my basement.

All were in perfect condition other than the one I dropped across a

1000amp live bus bar. I kept what was left of it as a safety reminder.

[Nate Nagel]

Well, I'm back...

have to say that the OLDEST tools that I have are an S-K socket set that I inherited from my grandfather; they're so old that they're marked "Sherman-Klove." Unfortunately it is marginally useful as it's a 12 point 3/8" drive SAE set, which I almost never need. My FAVORITE tools are a set of polished S-K metric combination wrenches that a friend picked up at a pawn shop for cheap; he only works on old American cars though so I traded him size for size with the Craftsman combo wrenches that came with my basic "mechanic's tool set" and walked away whistling happily. Unfortunately he didn't have the 13mm... The NEWEST tools I have are also a S-K Torx driver set that I got for a good price from ToolTopia; I purchased those when I bought my Jeep because MoPar seems to love using Torx everywhere and in many different sizes. And as far as I know, S-K tools are still Made In USA - so I like S-K... I just don't know where to buy 'em.

I did use the "find a dealer" function on S-K's web site and discovered a new (to me) independent auto parts store about 3 miles from my house, unfortunately when I got there the tools they actually had for sale are "K-Tool" brand stuff made in Taiwan. Lifetime warranty though, and I know where I got it... I also stopped by the Orange-Colored Store and exchanged the busted socket (3/8" drive, 6 point 17mm deep socket) the new one I'm not really sure why I even bothered to leave the store with it. It's proudly Made In China, and the bevel at the end that guides the socket on the nut is very deep, probably a good 3/16". The hex area of the socket is very shallow; this one looks less likely to split than the old one anyway simply because of the massive amount of metal they threw at it, but deep nuts like you'd find on leaf spring U-bolts won't be able to be fully engaged by the socket. The K-tool one looks way better actually. But at this point I would buy nothing but S-K if I could find a local dealer just because I trust them. Or maybe I'll just have to suck it up and start buying Snap-On off the truck at extortionate prices (my friend owns a shop, so I could just tell him to pick stuff up for me whenever the Snap-On man stops by - I've already had him get my Snap-On torque wrench calibrated for me.)

I will say that I've had reasonably good luck with all my Craftsman sockets, but I really don't like the ratchets (basic models.) I have

1/4" and 1/2" Kobalt ratchets and I'm considering buying a 3/8" just because they feel almost as good as Snappy and I have yet to have to take one apart and clean and oil it like I have to do every couple years with the Craftsman ones.

OK, back to changing wheels, which I should have been done with hours ago...

nate

[philoÂÂ]

Yep SK tools are great.

As far as my oldest tools ... I still have a few of my grandfather's wooden handle hammers that must be 80 years old. As a matter of fact I still use his "hand powered" grinder...I don't know how old it is but I've been using it for close to 50 years.

Plus I still use my dad's Black and Decker drill. Even though it was not expensive the darn thing keeps on working...it's about 50 years old. I was really surprised when he bought it and I retired my "hand crank" drill.

[Nate Nagel]

yeah, I was neglecting power tools. I have an old Craftsman scroll saw that I suspect was my great-grandfather's. I got it out of my grandfather's garage after he passed away. I had to put a new power cord on it very recently, I think I posted that I was disappointed that I think this may be the last time I can service it as I actually had to disassemble the power switch and bend the spring contacts for the connections for the new power cord (or I suppose I could just solder them next time, if there is one) but it's so old that literally no parts are available for it :(

It's still nicer than the new scroll saw that my parents bought me for a gift when I mentioned that I was going to need one for something that I wanted to do around the house. When I visited Grandma she gave me the old one so I ended up with two... I sold the new one and kept the old one.

nate

[EXT]

Yeah, I can relate to that. I have some tools that go back to the mid

1950's, many power tools were purchased when I built my house in 1970 and a number were added when I built an addition in 1986 and I have been adding since then. I still have a radial arm saw that I bought in 1970. It was sold as a Teco brand by the large Canadian department store T. Eaton and Company, (now closed) hence the Teco name. The same saw was sold in the US as a Montgomery-Ward brand. The manufacturer is long out of business but the saw still cuts a well as it ever did.

[WW]

I recently retired after a 38 year career as a field service engineer.

The *only* original tools I had left were my Sears Craftsman socket set.

I kept them and turned in a set I had in my basement.

All were in perfect condition other than the one I dropped across a

1000amp live bus bar. I kept what was left of it as a safety reminder.

[SteveB]

I actually look for old good tools at yard sales. There are lots out there for next to nothing, and many are lots better than what you get today. MUCH thicker walled sockets, heavier wrenches. If you need to have all matching stuff, all shiny, for show, that's difference. If you want something you can yank on, look for the older strong stuff. A lot of it is in nearly unused condition.

And as suggested, a set of impact sockets come in handy when something is stuck good.

Steve

[Stormin Mormon]

I've had that happen, when the mechanic airs them on too tight. I've taken to asking them to put the lugs on finger tight, and I'll set the torque in the parking lot before I leave. With aluminum rims have to check torque the next day, and the second day also. They tend to loosen up. I'm not fond of aluminum rims.

[Stormin Mormon]

My parent have expression for this "ten minute job". Which ends up needing several trips to the store, and repeated parts runs.

A couple months ago, I finally pitched out a winter coat which had been eaten by battery acid. A reminder to heed the promptings of the Spirit, which told me to wash it that night in hot water and baking soda. A friend blew up a starting battery. I took hold of him to help him into the house (acid in his eyes) and got acid on my coat.

[Stormin Mormon]

My box of locksmith tools, is my grand father's old fishing tackle box. Don't remember when I got that, but he died in the eighties. I still think of him, when I'm on service calls.

On to the original subject. I do carry a 25 inch breaker bar in both vehicles, and a couple black sockets. I'm the kind of guy who stops to help others along the road, and it's come in handy.

One time, on a brake job. Broke a black 17 mm socket on back of a brake caliper. I had a silver one in English, which did the job.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, You are darn right. Over torquing can warp rotors as well.

[Nate Nagel]

yeah, I've done that, I really would like to find a local dealer for good quality new tools however for when I need something that I haven't found used 'n' cheap.

I don't have any impacts although I've thought about it - but in this instance the extra thickness of the impacts would have made it tricky to get on the lugs without marring the recesses in the wheels.

nate

[Jon Danniken]

I've learned to always specify the lug torque whenever I go to the tire place. I spec it to the minimum torque recommended in my FSM, then I go home and take my torque wrench and finish the job myself.

Jon

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:23:07 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

Yep. And I never bought a car that didn't have a lug wrench in the trunk. Then I toss my big 4-way in there, and use that for lug nuts. Only time I used a socket set on tire nuts was when I wanted to make use of the speeder in my old Craftsman set. Pretty quickly found out that spinning a 4-way is faster than a speeder, and never went back. A normal socket isn't really suitable for removing lug nuts, because the nuts can be seized up. I've had to use a 4 foot persuader on some, so that might have been +400 ft lbs torque to break them loose. Doubt the normal socket is designed for that torque. I've done quite a bit of wrenching, and only remember breaking one socket. Wasn't on a lug nut. Don't remember the brand. Probably just a manufacturing defect in the socket, or somebody had abused it before I broke it. Maybe had it in a vise. Who knows. Probably not a dime's difference in socket and wrench quality except for really low end stuff. My kid is a pro suspension mechanic doing heavy trucks all day long, beating on a lot of wrenches. He has them all, Snap-On, Matco, Mac, Craftsman, blah blah. He breaks them all. One of his favorites to beat on is Pittsburgh from HF. He lives near a HF, and they'll replace a broken wrench/socket just like Snap-on, Craftsman et al. Says they last as long as any others he has, sometimes longer. The ONLY tool he swears by is his Matco impact, a rebranded IR Titanium. Paid more getting it from the Matco guy, but he wanted it as soon as he tested it, and it was convenient. So Nate, relax and just get any replacement socket. And don't use a normal socket for breaking loose tire lugs.

[Nate Nagel]

Sadly, BMW thinks its customers are too dumb to handle changing tires themselves, so since the introduction of the E9x, no 3-series comes with any jack, lug wrench, or even a spare. I've rectified that, but the lug wrench is flimsier than a socket and breaker bar.

I have one too, real nice and beefy. Problem is the OD of the sockets are even larger than the corresponding impact sockets. No big deal with steel wheels, but alloys with recessed lugs = no bueno. I did use it before I had my wheels refinished last winter - in fact when I first got the car, I needed it plus a cheater to get the wheels off to clean them. But since I've had them refinished, I'm kinda particular about them...

That much is true, been doing that for years.

Unfortunately I don't really have a choice in this case, unless I get an impact 17mm but then wrap it in electrical tape or something to keep it from marring the wheel if it wobbles a little (or grind down the 17mm end of my 4-way and wrap that similarly.)

I'm just frustrated that I'm sure in this instance my issues were caused by the inspection... and that I was using a short/light breaker bar and still managed to break a socket. I have been real hard on tools (working on a lot of rusty old crap, not that this car is - far from it) and have put far more torque on similar sockets without issue.

nate

[philoÂÂ]

Assuming it was cotton, even if you immediately soaked it in a baking soda solution it would have been too late.

To work around batteries wool or polyester is the way to go.

As to the eyes,,,you should always wear safety glasses when handling a battery...otoh: if you get some acid in your eyes you will be OK if you thoroughly wash your eyes out with 'eye wash'.

I was in the industrial battery business for nearly 40 years and the only injury I saw due to "acid in the eyes" was when a supervisor panicked and while leading the poor soul to the eyewash fountain ... ran him right into an I-beam.

[Stormin Mormon]

Thanks, I wondered about the coat.

Farmer Bob was trying to start a Gehl Skid Steer. he leaned over the battery (I was on the other side of the machine) and wiggled the clamp. The heavy duty rolling charger was on 12 volt boost. I kid him about being on 12 volt blast. I could smell the acid from where I was. The battery exploded, with what sounded like a pistol shot. I heard him say "get some water for my eyes". I grabbed hold of him, and went into the house with him. He rinsed with water at the kitchen sink. I found some baking soda, and mixed some in a bowl for him to rinse. I called the local pharmacy, and they suggested ambulance ride and hospital. He declined. He didn't seem to suffer any permanent damages.

[The Daring Dufas]

********************Trim Da Phat********************

It's a good thing you weren't injured. A wonderful, smart electrical engineer I knew was killed when he opened an energized enclosure and the top rod of the door mechanism came out of the holder and fell into the connections carrying 4,160 vac. The arc and explosion killed him instantly, he never knew what hit him. He was a great guy with a family and a lot of people who called him friend. It was discovered that the dumb asses who installed the enclosure when there was no power on the system had the top rod fall out too but never told anyone because they didn't think it was important. I've installed, made splices and many connections on an underground 4,160 vac system using 15kv rated cable, splices and connections because it was a high humidity environment on a coral atoll. My electrical superintendent got a severe tingle from using a wooden hot stick and fortunately wasn't injured. Philo you know from experience that high current or high voltage power is nothing to drop your guard around, glad to see you're still around. o_O

TDD