On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 1:32:34 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
What's really funny is that Bayer, the German company, just bought Monsanto,
about a year ago. Now the lawsuits are hitting them. That was some
timing. I don't buy the lawsuits so far. The first one, a janitor
at a school in CA, claims he got lymphoma from using Roundup around
the school. Says sometimes he was saturated in it. What kind of moron
and who's fault is it, if you're saturated in Roundup when all you need
to do is spray some weeks around a school?
The latest one, the lawyers hit the jackpot. They have a couple that
both got it. Claimed they used it on several properties they owned.
I'm sure the fact that both of them got it, was very compelling to the
jury who felt sorry for them. But 75,000 people a year get it.
And they had many risk factors for it, including age, prior cancers,
immune system problems, etc. And it has been reviewed all over the
world and found to be safe, many times. It's only the WHO panel that
found that it probably causes cancer. I use it, but then I'm not a
moron and don't get it on me. Perhaps the most compelling study that
says it's not causing cancer was the 15 year long study done of farmers
in NC and another state and their families. They found that overall
they were healthier than similar non-farmers and had no elevated incidence
of lymphoma. And that was with using not only RU, but all kinds
of other pesticides and chemicals. If farmers who spray it by the
thousands of gallons aren't getting it, hard to explain how some
homeowner spraying some weeks would get it. Besides, by now, don't
people know enough that any chemical like that, especially one that
kills plants, you shouldn't get it on you? And if you can't use RU,
then I guess we should start using diesel fuel. No problems there, right?
Don't be afraid, corporate shills with white lab coats and an alphabet of initials after their names have determined Roundup is good for you.
In fact, you might have a Roundup deficiency so maybe should take some as a dietary supplement?
You can't confuse a consumer operation like Costco with commercial
operations like Lesco or even a retailer like Rural King. I doubt
Roundup was 0.001% of Costco's business. They are basically a toilet
paper company that sells other stuff. (paper products are their
biggest seller and the highest profit item)
Glyphosate may diminish as a consumer product but I doubt it ever goes
away commercially and the replacement will be found to as bad or worse
in a decade or two.
Right now everyone is looking at one jury in California but even if
this survives an appeal, the 9th circuit is the most overturned
federal court in the US.
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 3:20:18 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Mostly agree, but it was two juries now, one I think awarded a couple
hundred mil to the school janitor, the recent one was a couple in their
70s who both got lymphoma, jury awarded them $2 bil, but that award
is way out of any legal norms and will be reduced. On the other hand
Bayer may be really screwed, unless this is reversed or greatly diminished.
About 75,000 people get lymphoma every year and they will be lining up
to sue. On late night TV the shyster lawyers are already running ads
seeking clients. And I'm not so sure about glyphosate overall either.
Things are so nutty today that I could see activists pushing and getting
it banned. I use it. Personally I'm more concerned about farmers using
it to kill wheat and similar before harvesting it. Banning that I would
have no problems with. Another interesting irrefutable fact is that
non-Hodgkins lymphoma incidence has declined over the last several
decades, which is the period when RU entered the market and is now
widely used. But when you're a jury and see some old couple in their
70s, facts sadly don't matter.
On Tue, 21 May 2019 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
Juries are far from science and in California they seem to think
nobody really has to pay those ridiculous settlements. If you did take
a couple billion from Bayer it would show up in a lot of things we
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 5:50:51 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
It's shown up in their stock price, it's down by half. I wouldn't touch
it at this point, would you? Whoever engineered that buyout of Monsanto
must have been a real moron, because it was obvious this was where this
was headed, once that WHO committee put it on the probably causes cancer
list. Even if the awards are reduced, there will be so many more coming,
it will be a tidal wave, like the asbestos disaster, unless this is
overturned or other juries reach the opposite conclusion. To me, if
you were a janitor for a school and you got soaked in RU, it's your
fault, you're an idiot. And if it happened once, what would you or
I do? I'd figure out what's wrong, get a tyvek suit, etc. The truth
is all of these people probably had very little actual exposure.
Nobody can prove they are lying. I spray it with a 3 gal backpack
sprayer, never had anything more than very minimal exposure, like
when adjusting the nozzle, maybe got a drop on my fingers. And when
I'm done, I take a shower.
Many times of any case that goes to the juries no matter how wrong it
may be the jury sides with the person and against the big business.
Just remember most juries are made by people too dumb to get out of the
duty. I doubt that any of them could even understand what was being
said other than the man sprayed RU and got cancer. In California almost
everything causes cancer.
Just checked and it is listed as a carcinogen on California's
Proposition 65 list based on IARC pronouncement. Some have exposure
levels that are practically immeasurable. When ever I make a safety
data sheet I will list a chemical used to make up the product on Prop.
65 even though it may not even be present in the final product, e.g. a
solvent that contained 1 ppm even though the solvent is all evaporated.
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 6:38:37 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
As usual, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't post it.
I've been on jury duty twice and didn't try to get out of it.
First time I wound up on a criminal case, second time I didn't
make it. I was surprised at how large the selection pool was.
I think it was like 60 people. They were tossing one after
another, for one reason or another, but they managed to fill it
without getting to me. At that point, not sure how I felt.
I had spent a couple days, think I had to spend one more day
there anyway. Probably would have enjoyed getting on actually,
instead of spending two or three days and not doing anything.
You can't complain about the justice system if you don't fulfill your
civic obligation to serve. Not sure about all, but most states obligate
the employer to make up your pay difference so that is not an excuse.
There are very few valid excuses.
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 7:21:12 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
The one and only time I was seated on a jury, it was a date
rape case. We acquitted. There was no evidence, it was just
"he said", "she said", and we couldn't see ruining the boy's
life because he AND his girlfriend got piss-drunk and maybe
he couldn't read her signals.
In the one I was on the prosecution made it sound like the husband was
the Boston Strangler during the voir dire. When the wife got on the
stand she admitted he was asleep when she started beating on him and he
may or may not have touched her throat when he tried to fend her off.
The root cause was someone in the house called 911. The sheriffs
answered the call and thought they had to arrest someone and when in
doubt take the husband to jail. At one time the cops would have
separated them and talked them down until it was apparent they weren't
going to kill each other, and left. Back in my wilder days cops seemed
to have a lot better sense of humor, fortunately for me.
On 5/23/2019 10:17 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Where is "here"? Most places there is an arrest if physical encounter,
not verbal. Often, if no physical contact, one party just leaves for
the night it is done and cops leave. OTOH, if one of them has marks or
cuts, the other is cuffed and gone.
Male privilege... The wife said on the stand that she initiated the
physical confrontation and drew blood. The husband wound up in the back
of the cruiser.
The cops probably could have let it slide but the real asshole was the
state prosecutor. He should have known what the wife was going to say
when questioned. I never went to law school but I figured that out.
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