Set fence post in concrete, dirt, or gravel?

Just had to replace a lamp post that broke from wind shear. I think it was original to the house, 1966. Had to hire someone to replace it for a cost of about $500 because it had to be dug out of the huge concrete chunk it was sitting in, and said chunk had to be broken into removal bits. A real pain. On the other hand, apparently it had lasted forty years. I had the new one set in concrete (with a piece of PVC pipe to protect the electric line so that we didn't have to worry about cutting the power line if we had to break into the concrete again, ever).

Concrete is obviousl a major PITA to replace, but how long do they last today? In 1966 they used better preservative, and posts would last 50 years. What can I do to my posts today to get at least a couple of decades out of it?

I don't know how long modern wood posts would last. But it's gotta be easier and cheaper to put screws/nails into wood than, say, a cast iron pipe. :) And it's easier than putting a stainless steel achor bolt into the top of a cast iron pipe filled with concrete onto which you could hang your fence wood.

But if you go that way, let us know how it works out. It might look cool. ;)

I was at the Oregon State Fair yesterday, and one vendor had a system where you pour your concrete plug into the ground and have a square concrete post coming up a few inches out of the ground. Fence post gets bolted to that. Fence post never touches the ground. If fence post rots away, you unbolt it and bolt a new one in it's place. I'd be interested in doing this if I could find instructions and parts.

concrete of not the wood is going to get wet

get a bucket of drivesealer, mix some kerosene with it dip the bottom of the post in it, stack them let them dry... repeat a few times...

set them in dirt, dirt will settle rilltight

but you haven't said what the application is, or what is going to be hanging on the poastseseseseseseseseses

it matters not really, you stick two feet in the ground they won't fall.. you treat the bottoms LIKE I TOLD YOU they will outlive you

WHATEVER YOU DO RENT AN AUGER

ok, since you're forgoing concrete rent the auger

personally I think you should keep talking about it for a few more days

Just remember that the bottom of your fence post needs to have a lot of bending strength to resist a wind storm. So if the connection at the base will break at near the same loading level that the post will break at, you might have something worthwhile.

Do you have a link to the hardware in question?

Metal posts in concrete will last indefinitely (or 75 years, whichever comes first). Mine have lasted 42 years and they make even better metal posts today than they did in the '60s.

1. Dig hole (it can be a lot smaller than if you were using 4x4).
2. Put a rock in bottom.
3. Set post in hole - make it straight.
4. Fill hole with water.
5. Slowly dump in a bag of concrete.
6. Repeat steps 1-5 for each post.

Wooden fence around my 2/3 acre property. Wood posts set 8 feet apart. Fence will be 6 feet high. I'm thinking of a small support in the middle to prevent sag, as most wooden fences I see sag in the middle of each run.

What is drivesealer? Driveway sealer? Why kerosene, and how much? Will this work on pressure treated ground contact rated posts?

High on my todo list. I'm going out today to stake the posts so I can get an accurate count of how many posts.

I might - the more I discuss it, the more advice I get, the more I learn, and eventually I'll know enough (or think I know enough) that I'll be ready to actually get off of my butt and do something

Personally, I have learned tons from this newsgroup. Usenet may be fading away, but there are still many vaulable newsgroups out there, like this one. My thanks to everyone that has pitched in with comments. Keep them coming!

As a follow-up, and not that I'm recommending anything, but I wonder how that cheap sch 40 black plastic ABS pipe filled with concrete would be as a fence post. I wonder if it'd be strong enough on it's own, of if it'd need to have a little re-mesh inside before you fill it with concrete.

Even if you don't paint it (and it's readily paintable), the carbon black that they add to it is supposed to keep UV rays at bay.

not if you ask me

google got on the usenet wagon, now google archives these q & a sessions; thus: Google Groups

I agree, it really is an "on time" source of help

how long has usenet been around anyway? since the days of 300 baud modems?

There are more newsgroups then there have ever been, but a lot of popular groups I used to frequent have died. I wonder if there are any usage stats out there? I'd like to see some historical numbers that are probalby more accurate then my opinion.

I didn't discover usenet until I upgraded to a 2400 modem. I think I still have a couple 300 baud modems lying around. I used to use a 2400 modem built for a commodore 64. I built an RS232 interface from Radio Shack parts and hooked it up to my PC/XT. Worked great :P

PS. Tell me more about "drivesealer" that you recommend using on the posts.

that's what we used to treat a horse fence, it came reccommended by a fella who raises cyldesdales

you thin it with kerosene in order to make it soak in better, about 1/2 and 1/2

it's no different than railway ties, you know, the black railroad ties you can find laying around

driveseal oppossed to watersealer, I can't see water sealer lasting more than a few years before it loses its properties

I found it. Driveway sealer. Driveway and paving sealer. Know of any suppliers in the US for this stuff? A brief romp through the Internet showed it readily available in the UK, NZ, Australia, etc. Or can any good driveway sealer work?

I have used the steel anchors that are designed to be pounded into the ground, but I set them into concrete. You can replace the posts if the bottom rots, and if you keep the steel painted. When installing, take extra care to keep them level because a slight angle can create a crooked post.

oh sure, any home-depot, lowes, ace hardware...

do you have a local DIY home shop? they mighit have it too.. of course if it's cold out.. it will go on a tad thicker and soak in a tad slower

maybe add your city and state to your search terms

Different types of soil and climate may produce different results. That said, my experience in the Baltimore Md area, is that a CCA PT

In fact, the posts will outlast 2 or 3 sets of cedar pickets. The soil that these posts were set in is soft for the first 8 inches or so, then becomes pretty hard, hitting clay at about 2 feet down. I put a few inches of gravel in the bottom of each hole. YMMV. I've seen lots of recommendations to avoid setting posts in concrete, claiming they would rot faster than when set directly in soil. Whethere that's true or not, I don't know, but with the life of a typical PT post set directly in the ground, it certainly is not necessary.

It depends on the density of the CCA treating. Some BORG junk is only

Ook wrote:

Lots of great ideas here, but here's a couple more. In the countryside around here we have the occasional redwood fence posts with barbed wire. Redwood lasts a very long time, but the reason they still stand is due not to concrete but shale that's driven alongside the footer. When I reconstructed a fence along part of our property, I pulled out a couple misplaced treated 4x4 posts, and the part that was in the ground was as good as new. 40%copper pressure treated posts last a long time, and look better than steel or vinyl posts, in my opinion. I agree that concrete is so permanent to be a nuisance around the property. But, it does hold posts well and the post won't rot if the very bottom isn't sitting in a bucket of water soaked concrete. I didn't want to spend too much money on concrete, so I combined the pounding of shale and other flat rocks at the foot to make the post tight, and then at the top of the whole, I filled in a bit of concrete and mounded it a little so that dripping rain drains away from the post. Posts can support each other, so I used galvanized metal brackets to hold the cross supports between each pair of posts (set 8 feet apart), 2x4s set on edge, rather than flat, so that I wouldn't have the saggy look so common on fences in my area. These cross supports were 10%copper pressure treated posts, cheap and available at Home Depot, so I used 3 cross supports, rather than two. The top plate connecting across posts were 20ft long 2x6 redwood, and the visible lumber used was carefully sorted for heartwood 7/8"x5 redwood planks found also at Home Depot. I cut off the dog ears and put the edges under the overhang of the top plate. I drilled and used screws, not nails, which takes a little longer to put up, but results in fewer split boards and an overall stronger fence. Along the bottom at dirt level, I linked posts with