Replacement screws for a GE panel

I too had heard or read somewhere that the outlet grounding lug position sh ould be on the top so that if anything was to fall on something plugged int o the outlet it would hit the grounding lug rather than having a 50-50 chan ce of landing on the hot lead. This supposedly made it safer.

Reply to
hrhofmann
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should be on the top so that if anything was to fall on something plugged i nto the outlet it would hit the grounding lug rather than having a 50-50 ch ance of landing on the hot lead. This supposedly made it safer.

Wouldn't it be easier to make a receptacle plate that can deflect from abov e or below? A raised "V ridge. I've seen electric beds that have short-circ uited an outlet from below when being raised.

Reply to
bob_villa

snipped-for-privacy@att.net explained on 9/3/2016 :

Electricians wiring up rooms in a supermarket here in New Hampshire told me that when I asked them put them upside down. I thought it rather odd at the time because many three pronged plugs which lay sort of flat against the wall when plugged in now have the wires exit the plug straight up which puts strain on them.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

I believe it's a local "code" that's being enforced by some? of the inspectors around here. It seems to be inconsistent and I couldn't find anything specifically from NEC discussing it. I don't bring that upto the inspectors though. It's like wrestling with a pig in the mud...Sooner or later, you'll realize, the pig is enjoying it.

I personally don't disagree with you.

Reply to
Diesel

I should have been more clear previously. This appears to be a 'local code' that's being semi enforced by some inspectors in this area. I didn't find anything in the NEC that actually addresses it.

Reply to
Diesel

Well, according to trader_4...

Those electricians, myself, AND, uncle Monster were/are all wrong! it's total BS. [g] I didn't realize trader_4 knows all the local codes too. rofl.

Reply to
Diesel

Do you find yourself arguing with inspectors often? I wonder if I've had the pleasure of working with people of your mindset before. If so, you're the type of person who pisses that inspector off and makes more, unnecessary (imho) work for us.

We have several inspectors in this area insisting (a polite way to put it) that we install them ground pin up due to some local code (that nobody can quote me) they are enforcing. As they have the final say over the inspection, Myself and the rest of the crew tend to do what they want us to do. We're just the electricians, not that high up the totem pole.

Reply to
Diesel

Woah there pilgrim! You posted this:

"Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit condition."

In AHR when people say there has been an electrical "code change", it implies that it's an NEC change. You must have meant that too, otherwise it's pretty much pointless to just tell everyone here that there has been a code change if that code change has only made in your little burg somewhere and you don't even say where that is. What relevance does it have to the rest of us if it's not a new NEC code most places then adopt?

So now apparently it's not even all the inspectors in your area, but just some. They can't be much of an inspector if they can't site the code that they are enforcing.

That's fine. But I would think you'd realize that there is a difference between some local inspectors enforcing something that they can't even site and a NEC code change that effects much of the whole country. And I'd hope you wouldn't go around posting about a "code change", when you now say that so far even the inspectors making you put outlets in ground pin up, can't site the code behind it.

Reply to
trader_4

I wouldn't be laughing if I were you. You made a post that there has been a "code change" that now requires receptacles to go in ground pin up. Tossing it out that way to everyone reading it, implies that it's an NEC code change, which is why I said I was skeptical and asked if anyone has an NEC cite. Now you have now switched to some inspectors requiring this locally, but unable to give you any cite to anything that has it in the code. If you're an electrician, you don't have access to the local codes? And note, I'm not saying you should argue with the inspector, only that when you post here that code now requires that receptacles go in ground pin up, it's misleading if it's just some local inspectors and you can't even find it in code anywhere. It leaves people reading this thinking that if they're putting in a receptacle it has to go ground up.

And IDK what's going on in NH, but I agree with Rafters that the flat cables I've seen are going to be a mess when used upside down. More people will probably get hurt tripping over those cables then were ever hurt from a metal plate somehow falling down onto outlet pins. I've tripped over cords, I've never had a metal plate fall and short out a plug before.

Reply to
trader_4

You enjoy chastising...but clearly don't know how inspectors work, right or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a block wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code says the ro of has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft. My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contracted to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief engineer for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

Reply to
bob_villa

I didn't intend to imply any NEC code change when I wrote the initial statement describing the stupidity (just my own personal opinion) of the local code in several places I've been in my little 'burg' of TN/VA. Sorry for not making that absolutely clear in the initial post.

Btw, if you ever get the chance to visit Mountain City and/or New Tazwell, pass. Everything closes at 9pm around there. Can't even find a nice tasty burger when you're done working for the day if you don't make it someplace before 9pm (est time)

And both places look like something from a time capsule sealed up in the 1950s. [g]

It depends on what you define an area as. I work in TN/VA.. so...

I said 'some' as depending on what state/city/county I'm doing work in, I may not have to put the outlets ground pin up. When we grab the permits, we do a local code check to see if that state/city/county specifically wants them up, or, doesn't care. And, we act accordingly. Whenever possible.

I do. I also know that even if i'm right on something, I'm not going to argue with the inspector. Him Big Chief/, I little indian. I know my place.

If I do post about something wonky concerning electrical code and I can't find anything from NEC covering it, I will specify local code in the future. I don't know for sure that they (the inspector) couldn't pull something out of their arse if they wanted to do so, I don't press the issue. Especially when the inspector is already in a bad mood from another job site unrelated to mine.

Reply to
Diesel

or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a blo ck wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code says the roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft. My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contracted to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief engineer fo r the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

As usual, you chime in and don't know WTF you're talking about. I never said or implied anything about how inspectors work or don't work. I didn't tell Diesel to argue with the inspector. My point was that when you make a post that the "code" has been changed so that it now requires receptacles be installed ground pin up, and you don't make any reference to a location or local code, it implies that the NEC has been changed. It's like people posting here that the code now requires AFCI in most of the living space. That's true, because the NEC has been changed. In the case of the ground pin up, from what Diesel is now saying this is something that some of the local inspectors he deals with are requiring, but they can't cite any code to back it up. According to you I should have just shut up so that people reading it think that this is "code" like AFCIs, etc and that it probably applies to them, when so far no one can even cite the code? And I'm about 99.9% sure it's not in NEC. If this were an NEC thing, widely adopted, it would be all over the internet. It's not.

Reply to
trader_4

It occurred to me that there might be a different suggestion or maybe even a code for nursing homes or hospitals where oxygen tents might be expected. I looked for hospital grade receptacles orientation and found this which seems to confirm my suspicions.

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Not an authoritative answer, but perhaps the reason for many professionals to do it that way by default.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

t or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a b lock wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code says th e roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft . My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contracte d to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief engineer for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

...all you ever seem to do is repeat yourself...blah, blah, bablah! That ma kes you the anal idiot.

Reply to
bob_villa

It's obviously not very authoritative because it's wrong.

"if you look at any GFCI receptacle you will notice the orientation of the writing is with the ground up."

I took me 10 secs to disprove that. I just looked at the closest one, in a bathroom. It has lettering twice, for "test", "reset", etc. one set upside down from the other so it can be installed either way. Then I went downstairs and the one in my master bath has the GFCI verticle, but receptacles that are part of it are sideways, with the ground pin on the left and the lettering is set up to accommodate that. At least I assume that's the "writing" that they are referring to. So then I figured maybe something has changed and new ones are marked like they say. So, where better to look than the Leviton website for their products:

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The current Leviton ones are marked just like mine, to be used in either direction. So, whoever wrote that reply doesn't know WTF they are talking about.

"Which brings up a concern that 90 percent of all plugs that are made for devices are designed to have the ground down."

I agree with that, but obviously it's not a problem here in my world because I can't recall seeing a GFCI installed ground pin up. Once in a blue moon I see a receptacle upside down, but not often. But it sure would be a good idea for people to figure all this out, before they go mucking with it on some theory. I doubt there is any evidence of people dying, getting injured, buildings burning down, because they are installed ground pin down. If you had enough cords that work better going in ground pin down being used the other way, I wouldn't be surprised that would create more problems. For example the flat kind, put in upside down, and the cord coming partially out from cord movement, people hitting it, etc.

"For safety sake in a hospital where an oxygen rich atmosphere exist you will want to go with the standard practice of most electricians and engineers of having the ground up"

Not clear what they mean here by "standard practice". Do they mean that it's standard practice in a hospital where oxygen rich atmospheres exist? Or do they mean it's standard practice of most electricians period. It's the kind of wording that drives DerbyDad bonkers and I agree here it's not clear.

It's consistent reasoning with what others have brought up here. But it's also a good example of what happens when folks like those on the Leviton website go off half-cocked and why it's better to have consistent, national codes and practices to the extent possible.

Reply to
trader_4

ght or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a block wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code says the roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft. My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contrac ted to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief enginee r for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

makes you the anal idiot.

Sometimes I have to because village idiots like you just can't comprehend.

Reply to
trader_4

right or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a block wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code say s the roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was

3 ft. My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contr acted to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief engin eer for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

t makes you the anal idiot.

I comprehend you have a mental problem...

Reply to
bob_villa

..snip...

At least someone gets me. ;-)

Reply to
DerbyDad03

trader_4 formulated on Tuesday :

Here is a hospital grade right angle plug. Notice the 'apparently expected' orientation.

formatting link

Everywhere I've looked, I see no indication of NEC code about 'ground up' orientation, but plenty of local practice examples can be found.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

Oren formulated on Tuesday :

There's this also, notice the writing (which wouldn't be visible behind the escutcheon).

formatting link

Anyway, none of these observations really mean anything. If some electrician tells you it's code, ask him for the chapter and verse so that you can inform the internet. :)

Reply to
FromTheRafters

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