I believe there were 8 people on the party line my parents were on (and grandparents on that line too). We never heard rings for someone else. I don't know exactly how it was wired, except there were 2 wires entering the house.
I checker the loose ethernet cards I had around. 3 of them (all
100Mbps) and the pins shorted. the other 2 (10Mbps) did not. Maybe it's a speed indicator.
SUPPOSED to. They (Verizon) didn't when I got a second line in 1999.
[snip]BTW, the installer also claimed I had poison ivy. I didn't.
Thanks for providing confirmation. I was wondering why there were so many 2-line adapters and other things for that "nonexistent" wiring scheme.
[snip]
Those can not be lit all the time, but only when the phone is "on hook" since there is very little power available before activating the telco's off-hook detection.
I never had one of those phones, but when I moved into my first apartment (an old one) someone had left one of those wall-warts, still connected to the yellow/black wires to the phone jack. I still have the thing. It's beige (dirty white) in color, made by Western Electric, and has screw terminals marked "SEC: 6-8V 1.75VA".
I had party line service in Sanibel Florida in the 80s. It was a rental and they may still have it.
Thanks. I didn't know that. This was done with belden wire, not W/E.
I looked this one up in an electrical engineering reference ca. 1968.
In addition to what you wrote above there was tip-to-ground with positive and negative ringing and similar ring-to-ground positive and negative ringing. That gives 4 party full selective ringing.
The text refers to frequency selective ringing. What I remember is the ringers were mechanically or electrically resonant at different frequencies.
I have no idea how common either of these schemes were. They require different ringers (frequency selective) or added cold cathode tubes (+/- ringing).
-------------------------------- Thanks for all the great phone info (this thread and all the others). Tidbits like construction of quad cable to eliminate crosstalk are priceless.
My experience is with Verizon also. In my area Bell Atlantic preceeded Verizon and Chesapeake and Potomac Tel. Co. preceeded Bell Atlantic. Many of the homes in my neighborhood, as well as the neighborhood I lived in about 12 years ago, never had demarc boxes installed.
The previous owner of my home had 2 lines. There are 2 cables that come directly from a utility pole, attach to the side of the house with standoffs, go down to the sill plate and enter the basement at the gap between the siding and the sill plate. They continue about 10 feet into the basement where each cable is connected to a separate junction block. The same large-gauge, exterior wire connects one of these blocks to a third block located about 25 feet away in another part of the basement. Each block has several cables connected to it for the different extension locations. Some of these cables are so old that they are cotton-covered. A few rooms still have the old 4 prong phone jacks.
I have had a few problems with our phone wiring over the years. I have _ASKED_ Verizon to PLEASE install a demarc box on several occasions but the service techs just won't do it, instead they come into the house and "fix" the immediate problem. We have never been billed for these "fixes." I would rather have Verizon install a box, and rewire the house with modern cabling myself. Perhaps one day Verizon will install the demarc and I can go ahead with that plan
Usually true, but not always. If the customer (usually the missus) objected to 'that ugly thing', or if there was no outlet near the phone drop, they would sometimes use the second pair for power, and put the wall wart in the basement. After I was here a year, I banged my head on an abandoned one hanging from its black and yellow wires under the basement stairs. (the run had been cut off upstream.) Not the first time I had seen a basement-mounted one.
-- aem sends...
Of course this is not "politically correct", but these messages do make women seem much more likely to be irrational. There ARE exceptions.
Feel free to do whatever wiring you like, WHEN you like.
Just because there is no "official" SNI/D doesn't mean you can't do your own wiring. You simply begin your wiring at the point where the telco drop wire terminates - usually on a protector block.
With the simple installation of a RJ11 block and short line cord, you can build your own "interface" just immediately beyond the telco's protector.
If I were to completely rewire a home, I would place a dedicated "home run" to each outlet (as opposed to the "series" type of wiring) and terminate each cable to a point that is walk-up accessible on a utility room wall. From that location you simply run ONE cable to the demarc. Fumbling around in the joists, along with the darkness and spider webs, is a PITA.
That is where a "66" block comes in handy. Loop the telco pair through the left side using the "no cut" side of the punch tool and bring all of your home runs to separate pairs on the right side (using the "cut" side). Bridging clips makes the final connection and removing them 2 at a time will isolate any home run to aid in trouble shooting a problem.
No sexism involved or intended. I have no idea if it is genetics or how they are raised, but in my experience, most women are MUCH fussier about the appearance of their surroundings. The stereotypes arose for a reason. Stuff most guys would shrug over irritates some women every time they see it. It isn't that they are irrational, it is that they have different priorities. Yes, there are exceptions, but that is why they are called exceptions.
-- aem sends...
You can buy your own demarc box or SNID or whatever, you know. The internet is a wonderful thing. Just connect the old telco house feed to the 'protected' side of the box.
-- aem sends...
Agreed. However, some folks object to PAYING for, and installing themselves, that which SHOULD (and eventually might) be installed for "free" by the telco.
While it sounds easy enough, keep in mind that service providers take a VERY dim view of unauthorized persons messing with THEIR property.
In my experience, those that did work on the telco side of the demarc did so in a shoddy, uninformed manner. Most often the ground was omitted. Ignorant or, more likely, careless alarm system installers were most likely to work "ahead" of the demarc. In many cases, they would make their "line seizure" tap AHEAD of the protector, routing the unprotected pair to the alarm system panel, then back to the protector where it was finally protected.
There is a potential, significant ADVANTAGE to NOT having an official network interface, particularly IF the customer does NOT subscribe to an inside wiring maintenance plan: In the event of inside wire trouble, where the subscriber is unable to UNPLUG from the network, a trouble isolation charge is NOT levied. It is during this isolation process that the repair tech is SUPPOSED to install a SNI/D, especially if the customer does NOT subscribe to an inside wire maintenance plan. That way, if inside trouble occurs again, the isolation charge ($) CAN be levied.
On numerous occasions, I encountered and performed just as I described. I would install the interface. Then, if the trouble was on just ONE of the station wires, I would leave that one disconnected, usually restoring service to the rest of the customer's system.
If there was only one pair leaving the old protector (series-wired home), the customer remained out of service until the inside trouble was cleared.
In either case, I would show the customer their new SNI and demonstrate its operation. I would then explain their options for repair including an offer to fix the inside trouble myself at my company's exorbitant rate.
A SNI/D (Standard Network Interface Device) does NOT necessarily improve service as it provides NO improved protection compared to the old, grandfathered "hard-wired to the protector" service. The SNI/D simply provides an OFFICIAL point of demarcation between the service provider and the customer AND a convenient means to disconnect from the network for trouble isolation purposes.
So you are saying that I should modify wiring that belongs to the phone co? :) Yeah, I know I could install a box myself, but I guess I can be just as stubborn as the phone co. I've added new wiring where the house needs it, but I'd just rather not do Verizon's job for them.
Sure do -- variously named sharp-sign, pound-sign, hash, etc. "#"
When you program computers, you learn that kind of stuff.
Like "!" being called "bang" and, in the U.K., at least by some people some time ago, "shriek".
David
What's this "pair" stuff?
Back in the 50's, in West Texas, we (and everyone else not living "in town") had a wood box hung on the wall, maybe two feet high and 8-inches wide, with a stethascope-like mike in the middle, and a crank on the side.
Cranking long or short gave you the long-short-short etc.
Now, the "pair stuff":
We were some 15 miles from town, and our "line" (well, party line) went that entire distance, and consisted not of a pair, but of a single bare wire. The other side of the pair was the ground, of course.
You ALWAYS had to shout over the, uh, rice-krispy (sp?) pop crackle and snap or whatever, but LOUD, damnit, LOUD!
"HELLO! HELLO! COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN!
WHO ARE YOU CALLING? WHO IS THIS? BILL? NO? WHO THEN?
BILL? TOO MUCH STATIC -- I CAN'T HEAR YOU! CALL BACK TONIGHT!
LESS STATIC"
"Who was that, honey?" "I don't know, couldn't get his name" etc, etc
David
Did "tip" and "ring" have something to do with the (tiny) "central office", where the two women sat in front of this big board in which you actually connected the phone calls, by pulling out a wire-and-plug (from the caller's line?) and then stretched it across the board and plugged it into the callee's socket, thus "connecting" the call, and then maybe via crank or perhaps button, generated the "ringing" of the bell on the callee's phone?
David
I don't think it was in the 90's that we got that they put that little box outside the house. I *know* it wasn't the late 70's or even mid '80s here, anyway. (New Rochelle, NY, "Westchester County")
David
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