OT: ? National infrastructure crisis

[Higgs Boson]

Not sure if this is really OT, because major infrastructure failures can an d DO threaten our homes, cars, etc.

Did anyone read about major leak on the campus of UCLA (University of South ern California) that gushed ~20 million gallons of SCARCE! water into the a ir. About 900 ? cars were trapped on campus. It took days to remove them. Now UCLA and the Water Dept are fighting/deciding who pays for the damage and the ruined cars.

Result was a spate of articles in the media about underground pipes that ca n be

100 YEARS OLD! That's only *one* manifestation of a general crisis of infra structure -- leaking water/sewage pipes, rotting bridges, bad roads.

Too bad the (hah!) authorities don't get around to things until a disaster like the UCLA pipes. Recently also other CA disasters -- gas leaks, etc. that cost lives.

Is this the only State that neglects preventive maintenance?

HB

[Ed Pawlowski]

Our town finally stated replacing 100 year old pipes a few years ago. The problems is, you can't see them and they still work, so no one wants to pay for maintenance work. If you are running for mayor, you'd not do well of your platform was to raise the water rates to fix things that are not broken yet.

When the Mianus River Bridge collapsed in CT years ago, it was easy to raise the gas tax to fix things. We have the highest gas tax rate but still have the worst roads. After a year or so, that money was quietly siphoned off for other causes of the politicians.

[Frank]

How's this grab you?

Dem Governor of DE, Jack Markell, worked hard to try to increase gasoline tax by 10 cents per gallon for repair of roads in DE. It was defeated. In order to submit balanced budget for DE this year, $10 million was taken from the roads funding. Too bad they did not have more to steal.

"infrastructure improvement" is one of these key phrases, for, "Hey, folks, we want to raise your taxes."

In DE's case state budget has gone up 26% since Markell's becoming governor.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

In MI the Republican Governor says we need to get more revenue somehow to fix the State's roads and bridges before they get even worse and cost even more to fix -- but the Republican-controlled legislature won't go along.

I have heard that in Germany they build their roads with much thicker/deeper layers of (concrete? other materials?), and they last much longer. Perhaps Michigan (and other states?) politicians have thought only about the next election and not about the long-term savings.

Perce

[Ed Pawlowski]

Well, that is a cynical view. Our elected representatives certainly know what is best for us. They do, don't they?

[Pico Rico]

Why do you think the Mafia got involved with labor unions? Lots of cash sitting around.

[Higgs Boson]

Sorry, what's the connection?

HB

[Pico Rico]

the government acts like the mafia. Old news, but maybe you missed it.

[Ashton Crusher]

As I understand it, the taxes are much higher in Germany. It's not just that they build the roads "thicker", they have a regular program where they come back every 5 years or so and redo the top couple inches to "make it like new" again. In many parts of the US it will be 20+ years before a road gets resurfaced. Still and all, there are many states in the US where the roads are pretty much as good as those in Germany.

[Ashton Crusher]

They have been STEALING the HIGHWAY tax money and sending about 25% of the collected tax to a few high population cities to spend on mass transit. If that money wasn't being siphoned off we would not have so many highways in disrepair. And we wouldn't need to be putting tolls on the highways to pay for them AGAIN.

[Stormin Mormon]

And I've heard talk that the Fed wants to nationalize all pension plans. They will all be as safe as Social Security, now.

[Stormin Mormon]

You got my money, on time?

[Stormin Mormon]

New York State has articles like this, now and again. Rochester NY at one time found some hollowed out tree trunk (soaked in tar) under the street, still carrying water. Left over from the original Flour City water pipe system. With a natural waterfall, Rochester was logical for a water wheel and flour grinding mill. Thus, the nickname of Flour City for Rochester, NY.

I suspect these nightmares are every where. Just like the levees in New Orleans. North East power blackout, and etc and more.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Has anyone ever lost most or all of the money they "invested" in Social Security? Plenty of people have lost all or most of the money they put in private investments.

I don't know whether the plans still exist, but 30 years or so ago Australia had guaranteed pension plans run by insurance companies: once a dividend had been allocated it became part of the principal and could never be lost -- some years there might be a minute or zero dividend, but nothing could be lost (other than by inflation).

Protecting its citizens from corporate malfeasance is one of the duties of government.

Perce

[Kurt Ullman]

Not yet. In the 80s Congress upped the SS tax to cover Boomer pensions. But then said that the proceeds could only be "invested" in special non-marketable Treasury securities. However, there was NEVER any income stream or other method to actually pay back the interest, let alone the principle. The money owed by the Treasury to the Social Security program is referred to as the "Social Security Trust Fund," and at the close of

2011, it had a balance of $2.7 trillion.This $2.7 trillion debt that the Treasury ***owes*** to Social Security amounts to $8,734 for every person living in the U.S. or $23,046 for every household in the U.S. (Emphasis mine).

How about from government malfeasance???

[Pico Rico]

yes - those that died too soon.

I bet those high income people who get a poorer "return on their investment" as well as having their SS benefits taxed could calculate that they lost most of their "investment" in SS as well.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Many Americans claim that the USA is so much better than many other nations because the taxes are higher in those other nations. But then they complain that their own (US) taxes are too high as well.

I don't know about Germany, but I had a Swedish room mate in grad school for while. He admitted that their taxes were high but said, "But we get good value for money." Simply comparing tax rates is meaningless without considering what benefits come from those taxes.

It's not

Michigan is not one of those states.

Perce

[Percival P. Cassidy]

So don't keep voting for the malfeasants (Was that a word? It is now).

I see little hope for remedying the USA's political problems. In many (most?) cases it costs so much even to get one's name on a ballot paper (never mind get elected) that by the time a person is elected, (s)he owes so much to corporate donors and other special interests that *your* interests warrant hardly a moment's attention. Get the money out of politics, and things would be much better.

Perce

[Kurt Ullman]

Good luck with that. Even if you take out the overrated hooha over the Citizen's United decision, you have to remember that every attempt at campaign finance reform since Nixon has had major parts of it torn apart by numerous different courts over the last 40 years.

[trader_4]

Yes, if you consider that you could be getting about an 8% return on your money invested in equities. And we do have the small problem that the money that has been put in isn't enough to adequately fund it, and it's slowly going broke. If you did that in the private sector you'd go to jail. And then we have the issue that the trust fund is in US Bonds, ie the social security fund is being used to fund reckless govt spending. And as it continues to mount, $17tril+, it becomes increasingly unlikely that the govt will be able to honor those bonds. Greece, here we come.

That's true if you allow a reckelss set of investments. But if you have a requirement that it be invested in a broad mix of securities, eg SP500, over the lifespan of a worker, that has never lost money and has returned a hell of a lot more than SS. It also puts that capital to work, where it fuels business growth, jobs, etc.

I'm more worried about who's protecting us from govt malfeasance.