OT: Joe Horn shooting

There was a thread that degenerated from something else a couple of weeks back that discussed the case of Joe Horn, a Pasadena, Texas man. Last November, Joe shot two men dead who had just burglarized Joe's neighbor's house. In the back. In broad daylight. With a shotgun. After being told by the 911 operator to stay in his house.

Various observations were made on this Joe's action. The opinions regarding Joe's position ranged from out-and-out murder to getting a medal.

Today, Joe was no-billed by the Grand Jury looking into the matter.

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Remember, laws may differ where you live. In Texas, we have the "But yer honor, he smelled funny" defense.

Reply to
HeyBub
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Who said; "there is no justice"? I respect him for doing what he said he was going to do, and that was "shoot" them.

I'm glad for Joe Horn!!

Reply to
Oren

By his account, he didn't know the neighbors who's house was being broken into. Good thing these robbers weren't actually the owners who got locked out of the house somehow. I guess he decided that it would be best to shoot them rather than take that chance. Besides they might have gotten away with a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff. Good call Joe.

Reply to
mike

But it does send a message - that thieves will be shot.

What I want to know is whether the case can be presented to another grand jury or is the nobill final?

Reply to
Duff2

Technically probably, although not likely in real life. It did not get to trial, obviously, so jeopardy did not attach meaning that wouldn't run afoul of the limits about trying someone twice for the same crime. Also, there is (theoretically anyway) other possibilities for criminal proceedings. Maybe discharging a firearm in a residential area. The Feds might have some civil rights violations they could look at (again theoretically).

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

There has to be new evidence in order for another grand jury to look at it.

Reply to
JC

Technically and politically true (probably the latter being more important), although they could use the same evidence to try and get a different charge.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

I don't think so:

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Reply to
JC

A civil rights violation, I think, would still have to pass a grand jury. At least that was the case for my brother in law who was charged first with manslaughter and found not guilty and then the feds tried to charge him with a civil rights violation but the grand jury refused to indict(sp?). In this case, like in in the infamous O.J. case, Mr. Horn has to worry that there might be survivors of the dead burglars who could take him to court in a civil case for damages and relieve him of any assets he may have. Even if they were unsuccessful in court, his lawyer fees would probably result in his bankruptcy.

Tom G.

Reply to
Tom G

Probably, but most civil rights violations are federal offenses and thus through the fed Grand Jury system.

Two or more grand juries can refuse to indict. Apparently your b-in-law was less guilty than the proverbial ham sandwich (grin).

In

Probably. Although I have always thought that if I had to kill someone, I would immediately sue HIS estate for the pain and suffering having to kill him caused me. Then settle when everyone agreed to mutual not sue agreements. I have also never understood how burglars can sue. There is a rather infamous (to my view) legal standard known as the Fireman's Rule. To greatly simplify, the Fireman can't sue for damages even if they result from negligence. The general outline is that he knew the job was dangerous when he took it and assumed those risks. Apparently burglars don't have the assumption of risk.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

This just goes to a page that says the content I am seeking has been moved.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Well heaven forbid that you would click on the link to what you are seeking:

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Reply to
JC

I wasn't seeking anything. You were trying to say I was wrong. Still nothing that I see leafing through the parts on the grand jury that says they can't try to get a different charge on same evidence. Ex from personal experience. We were presenting an arson case to a grand jury. We gave testimony as to the cause and origin of fire, etc. Part of that was circumstantial evidence of submitting false information to the insurance company. We did not get that indictment. Same Grand Jury a week later returned indictments of insurance fraud in the fire based on exactly the same evidence, albeit with a different emphasis. We had to show that the fire was intentional set in both cases. The difference was that we weren't able to put the match in the guy's hand to the satisfaction of the jurors, but we were able to put the pen in his hand. Grand juries don't have to make sense.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

That'll fix me. I am hopelessly and terminally devastated. I guess I have no other option but to kill myself. Good by cruel world. Wut a maroon.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

I doubt the state would try to bring a lesser charge, like discharging a firearm in a residential are. What he did was legally fire his weapon.

The state can turn over all the evidence to the federal prosecutor. Then the feds drag him into a federal grand jury for a federal civil rights violations.

That is what happened in the Rodney King case. Officers were acquitted in state court (batting out of turn). A true bill by the federal jury, tried, convicted, short time in minimum security federal camp as they wrote their books.

I'd like to know the composition of the grand jury pool that returned the no bill.

Reply to
Oren

Do Illegal Immigrants have civil rights down there ?

Reply to
Rudy

Not always true. The state can simply give existing evidence to the federal prosecutor. Joe would be subpoenaed to the fed grand jury. No other evidence is necessary to seek a federal indictment for violations of federal law.

As one judge said many years ago: There is Texas law and there is Fedral law! Now get the hell out of Texas!

Reply to
Oren

Not dead ones!

Reply to
Oren

You are correct. It took the Travis County District Attorney four grand juries before he found one that would indict Tom Delay.

As for discharging a firearm, loud noises, or failure to dispose of solid waste properly, exigent circumstances usually prevails.

Most U.S. Attorneys blanch at over-riding a local grand jury. It's tough to get a conviction when the defense can call 25 grand jurors as character witnesses...

Reply to
HeyBub

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