virus or something else?

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

It would be interesting to know if the biggest fatalities are in countries where antibiotics are available over the counter without prescription. Its begining to look like the main killer is an untreatable secondary bacteriological Pneumonia, which is antibiotic resistant. Certainly Italy and Spain seem to have a lot of that about. The other killer, which is the One Trump is championing his drug for is when the immune system goes mad, and produces loads of debris and you die from that filling the lungs. As that drug is used to control the immune system for people with Lupus, it is probable it can help in some cases.

Brian

[Jeff Layman]

It's probably not the main reason, although there may be cases where secondary infections are involved. The main thing responsible for severe symptoms, and eventually death, is a cytokine storm. See

. Some of the drugs (often monoclonal antibodies) which are being tested in severely ill patients are those which suppress this cytokine storm, and can be the difference between life and death.

[Brian Reay]

Reading across various reputable reports, those who either die or have serious symptoms and require intervention, invariably seem to either have some other condition or, for whatever reason, their body goes into overdrive in simple terms fighting the infection. That rather destroys the old/ young divider especially as it is coming to light more younger victims have died that first thought.

In the UK, older people are vaccinated against Pneumonia- certainly at 65 if not 60 or when the get their first NHS flu jab for another reason.

As for antibiotics- allowing them to be sold over the counter is potentially disastrous. Not only can it lead to resistance to antibiotics- which harms everyone, what about counterfeiting, ensuing the right antibiotic is used- they aren?t all effective for a given bug, ......

The recent, revised, predictions from Prof Ferguson- who initially predicted HUGE numbers of deaths- are far lower, less than 20000, probably far less, and approx 12000 would have died anyway within 9 mths ( why 9?).

[Jethro_uk]

Bottom line is we still don't know enough about viruses in general anyway. So trying to discover things about a "novel" one (as covid is) is starting from a disadvantage.

There are some viruses which are relatively innocuous on first infection but killers on a second.

And there's the ongoing puzzle over why some patients simply shrug off a virus that kills another. Which is at the heart of this C-19 response. We

- just -don't - know.

There are also some viruses that you cannot vaccinate against too.

[Chris Green]

Being pedantic you can only 'vaccinate' against cowpox/smallpox, you inoculate against other diseases.

Though I have to agree there's not a better word than vaccine for the stuff you do it with! :-)

[Jethro_uk]

SWMBO and I had a discussion over the terms recently - noting there are two.

Presumably "vaccination" is a subset of "inoculation" ?

[Chris Green]

Vaccine from the latin for cow, vacca.

[michael adams]

Polio vaccine ?

Cowpox/smallpox vaccine was certainly first on the scene. And was the subject of much salon gossip among the fashionable at the time. As not only did it prevent the disease itself, so they hoped, but any possibility of the disfiguring facial scars - which for ladies at least, could prove something of a disaster.

michael adams

...

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think there is a subtle difference in that technically vaccination used a different virus to form the immunity - cowpox - and inoculation technically uses the same virus only dead - or bits therefrom, but I wouldn't bet my shirt on that