OT: Is a stuck car accelerator capable of doing this?

[trader4]

Occasionally over the years there have been reports by a few people claiming that their accelerator got stuck and they were unable to stop the car by any means. I'm not talking about the case where something happens for a short period and the car lurches through a store window or something like that. I'm talking about where it went on for a considerable amount of time and the person was actually driving the car around. I have always believed this to be impossible because:

A - You can shut off the ignition

B - You could put the car in neutral

C - The brakes fully applied with maximum foot pressure are likely powerful enough to either stop the car through a massive failure of some major component, eg the transmission, or stall the engine.

Well, on the news a couple days ago there was a fatal car crash that killed 4 people that is being attributed to a stuck accelerator. The totally weird thing about this one is that a person in the car made a

911 call stating that this is what was happening and that they were driving around out of control. On the 911 call you can here the person saying "We're coming up on an intersection. Everbody hold on and pray,..." Or something to that effect. The Lexus was reported to have been traveling at over 120MPH. To add further credibility, one of the occupants was a California Highway Patrol Officer. The rest of those dead were his wife, daughter and brother-in-law. They didn't make it clear exactly who was driving.

Here's a link to the story:

I'm still mystified how this could possibly happen. Any thoughts?

[Nate Nagel]

This was discussed over on rec.autos.tech - it appears that this particular model does not have an ignition switch but rather a keyless system where to shut it down you push the "start" button for a couple seconds. so the operator may not have known this. (someone suggested that that might engage the steering wheel lock as well) Personally I think that is a really bad design...

now they should have been able to stop the car by using the brakes then putting the car in neutral which would probably destroy both the brakes and engine but that's better than dying. however we all know in an emergency you don't always think of things like that and your "reflex" is to protect the machinery...

nate

[RBM]

Anything is possible, including an impaired driver. If the floor mat was on top of the accelerator, it may have also prevented the brake from being fully depressed as well. What was going on in the car that caused the floor mat to become entangled with the pedals, and why did the driver not simply turn off the ignition?

[Bill]

In many of these cases, the person was pressing hard on the accelerator thinking it was the brake!

People are different. ALL sorts of people drive cars including those who are NOT "mechanically inclined". Some elderly people get "confused". Some people are not too bright. Some people "freeze up" in a dangerous situation.

Get one person out of a million who has all of the above traits to an extreme and you have an accident. (The other million would step on the brake, put it in neutral, or turn off the ignition.)

Also some people don't want to admit their mistakes. Or it may be in their best "legal" interest to claim it was the fault of the car.

[George]

Sounds like microsoft was involved. Windows users know you need to use the extremely intuitive method of clicking the "start" button to shut the computer down. It is not hard to imagine someone who had driven normal vehicles that have a key switch not remembering to push the "start" button to stop the engine especially in an emergency.

Apparently they tried:

"Sheriff's investigator Scott Hill says witnesses reported the tires of a speeding Lexus were on fire before it crashed Aug. 28 in Santee. The preliminary investigation says the flames suggest constant, heavy braking..."

And since the lexus has the genius "start" button maybe there is something that doesn't allow you to shift into neutral?

[Jim Yanik]

"RBM" wrote in news:4ab6156e$0$5010$ [e-mail]:

because they freaked out and stopped thinking. plus they were ON THE CELLPHONE.....

[WW]

This happened to me on a 1992 Ford Van when less than a year old. I could not stop with braking, auto transmission. Was able to shut off ignition. Towed to nearest dealer. They replaced both cables for accelerator and cruise control. Happened again, Towed to nearest dealer. They shot oil into cables. Happened again. Contacted Ford Motor Co. They had me take to original dealer. Ford contacted dealer and told them what to do. The list that was parts changed was a full page of every thing that had anything to do with electronics. Cured problem but never found out what part was the bad one. Never happened again. Still have van. WW

[RBM]

Actually, it wasn't that simple. It turns out it was a loaner car, so the driver was not familiar with it, and it didn't use an ignition "key". He would have to press the start button and hold it for three seconds. It is still a mystery as to why he didn't put the shift into neutral, or maybe he couldn't for some reason.

[Tony]

While taking my 55 bel air out for some air, the first time in over 15 years, out on a nice straightaway the throttle stuck. I was already going faster than I should have been and yes I panicked. First I hit the brakes as hard as possible and the pedal went to the floor. (sat so long the master cylinder went bad but they worked until that point). I stomped on the accelerator a few times to try and release it, no good. Still gaining speed. Finally I came to my senses and turned off the ignition, I also pumped the brakes and they started to work also. My friend (way) behind me came running up taking off his jacket and swatting under the car. With the stuck throttle and no ignition a lot of gasoline came out of the open headers and things were hot enough so it came out in flames. He told me that at first the flames were almost long enough to look like the Batmobile. The main point is that I panicked, and I didn't have an unfamiliar "off button" to deal with.

[The Daring Dufas]

I had the accelerator return spring snap on a 1967 Chrysler aircraft carrier. I turned off the ignition, stopped, opened the hood and bent the end of the spring back around the post then drove to the dealer to get a new spring. The Chrysler wasn't really an aircraft carrier, it was just freaking huge. A Chevy Nova ran a stop sign in front of the big Chrysler, the Nova lost.

TDD

[Tony]

I have a habit of trying the extremes of a vehicle... when so one else is around. Tested in more than one vehicle, full throttle and full brakes pressure won't slow down the car unless it's almost stopped already. The brakes simply get too hot too fast and become useless.

[Tony]

Glad you posted, many people would think the brakes would stop the vehicle but I know firsthand that they very well may not.

[Bob F]

I had a '66 chevy van that the throttle linkage came off, and it wanted to maintain highway cruise speed. I unlatched the engine cover beside me (between the two front seats, opened it, and throttled it down with my hand. What's the problem?

[Van Chocstraw]

Usually they have the accelerator pressed to the floor thinking it's the brake pedal. The rest of them are liars.

[Van Chocstraw]

It's also hard to control a car that is bouncing and thrashing all over the place.

[Big Jim]

one of the victims was a deputy as well, right? The "flaming tires" (yeah that's believeable) may have been one LEO covering for another. It does happen. However if lexus prevents the tranny from going into neutral and there is no emergency brake they may have some share of the blame. I'm thinking human error here- I doubt I'd have the sense to use the cell phone. I'd be yelling turn it off or shift into neutral etc

-

[clare]

Just p;ut it in neutral - the engine will NOT self destroy because it is rev limited to a very safe level when in neutral. To see how this works take any 1996 or newer vehicle, out of gear, and floor the accellerator. It will "surge" violently around the 4000 rpm mark as fuel is shut off to limit RPM. This is MANDATORY under OBD2 - and cannot be over-ridden by any throttle or cruise control malfunction.

[clare]

Better get the check straps installed oin the motor mounts, or the new style mounts. When the engine mount fails under accelleration on older chevies with mechanical throttle linkage, the engine lifts, jamming the throttle wide open. No way to release it short of shutting off the engine. There was a company wide recall covering all affected models back in about 1967 or '68.

I'm assuming this '55 has had a later model engine installed, using the "block" type mounts rather than the original front-mount type.

[SteveB]

"George" wrote

I smell lawyers .....................

[spud42]

The dealer left recalled floor mats in the loaner,=20 the ES doesn't come with an electronically controlled shifter.But To shift into neutral,reverse or park a lever must be depressed=20 Just trying to throw it in neutral.isn't going to work and In a panic in a loaner car the hold it for three seconds may seem like three min. repeated jabs does nothing. Hold(3 - 5 sec).Then` = Steering will momentarily lock, then turn back to on position not start = position or Engine will restart Now way is the brakes going to stop you at highway speeds with full = throttle I also have had two runaway cars, one with the floor mat wedged on = it,one in a loaner I pressed the gas and brake at the same time=20 Both took a few min. to figure out what was going on=20 I'm sure the 911 call wasn't made till they knew=20 it was not going to end well Spud