OT How high the fence?

[micky]

OT They've put up an 8 foot fence around the Capitol, topped with razor wire I heard elsewhere.

Almost no one will try to get over that.

I would prefer it if they put up a 4 foot fence with periodic signs prohibiting entry, and if they shot a few trying to climb over.

I'd like to see the other run or pee in their pants. They might stay home after that.

If they shot a few, it might teach the others to respect signs, respect fences, and respect the limits that law imposes on them.

BTW the way, when a year ago we were discussing shooting those with a knife, probably mentally ill, who the police would shoot dead instead of shooting to wound, sarcastic people tried to emphasize how hard it would be to hit a limb compared to hitting someone in the chest. I don't recall if I responded but I know I didn't mention that police are trained to shoot to kill. Is that not right? They don't even suggest they could shoot to wound a mentally ill person, even during times when the "suspect" is not moving. Do they?

[trader_4]

Funny we didn't see you here this summer calling for that in all the cities where BLM and Antifa were rioting, looting, burning the place down.

They are trained to shoot to incapacitate, which generally translates into aiming for the chest.

[rbowman]

"As I went walking I saw a sign there And on the sign it said "No Trespassing." But on the other side it didn't say nothing, That side was made for you and me.

One bright sunny morning in the shadow of the steeple By the Relief Office I saw my people ? As they stood hungry, I stood there wondering if This land was made for you and me."

Somehow those verses never get sung much. Guthrie even dropped one after the war.

[Ralph Mowery]

No need for a fencs. Just put out the word on all the news stations and social media that a red plastic warning tape similar to the police crime scene tape was going up and after a week of warnings the ones crossing would be shot. Lots less expensive.

[hubops]

My evil twin has been wondering what the defences are against small drones .. ? Perhaps souped-up ones with extended control-range and battery life ? And not just 1 or 2 of them - maybe 15 or 20 ? ... Doh ! did I think that out loud ! :-) John T.

[gfretwell]

I am fine with the idea as long as it is a national policy. The Portland, Minneapolis and Chicago riots would have been over pretty fast if they shot a few of them too ... or would they?

BTW the Capitol riot (invasion of the building) was just getting started when Ashli Babbit was shot and it went on for quite a while after that so maybe that is not as good of a solution as you think.

[gfretwell]

Maybe we can find some former STASI officers to coordinate that.

[Clare Snyder]

12 guage will bring them down like pigeons

[micky]

What do you claim I said about BLM or Antifa?

The situation was very different. If you can't see the difference, I probably can't help you.

I'm sure you could see the difference if it suited your desires.

[micky]

We don't have natinoal policies involving state or local police in America.

Were they trying to get in at different doors?

Did they continue to try to get in at the door where she was shot?

Or was it other doors. I really don't know, except that I did see them breaking in through a window that was wider than high and they had to bend down to climb in. So I think there were at least two places where they entered, maybe more.

It seems like at one door, or stairway?, the police got the rioters to turn and run and they trampled one of their own to death.

[Wade Garrett]

The reason for using "deadly force" is to immediately end the threat, not necessarily kill the attacker. The goal is a one-shot stop. That is usually accomplished by a deep wound channel of sufficient diameter in a vital area. That in fact is how police are trained.

I suspect you've never fired a rifle or handgun, especially at a moving target, and don't begin to understand how difficult it is to achieve a hit- especially when that target is of a mind to do you great bodily harm or kill you...or anyone in the immediate area and your adrenalin is flowing and your heart is racing.

[Ralph Mowery]

I bet that lots of the ones that say just shoot a leg or something like that have never shot at a moving target. It is claimed that at 21 feet away many people that are shot and will die in a short time will still be able to do you bodly harm or even kill you with a knife. Just like the ones that say get a shotgun so you can not miss. The legal ones will only spread out a few inches in the first 20 feet.

Most stndard police training is not very much and is usually taught to fire twice at thecente of mass. That is the middle of the chest.

YOu are also responsiable for the rounds that miss the target, so if you hit someone not involved watch out for lawsuits and other legal problems.

[Victorious]

Most of the "shoot 'em in the leg" crowd know how easily done it is from watching Gunsmoke and Wyatt Earp.

Tasers are limited too. As are rubber bullets. Perhaps some day a hand held immobilizer will be invented to stop a person for 10 minute with no lasting harm. Until then, bullets can save your life.

[Wade Garrett]

Star Fleet issued one of those to Captain Kirk and to Mr. Spock...

[rbowman]

'Rubber bullets' is a term that gets thrown around a lot. For riot control the rubber bullet is often a specialized 40mm munition. For reference, a 12 gauge shotgun is about 18.5mm. This is something riot police will have, not a leo responding to an incident.

There are 12 gauge shell with rubber pellets. Again, a shotgun isn't something carried on a duty belt.

Then there are the rubber bullets for the common 9mm or .40 caliber sidearms. They are not particularly effective. There is also the problem of do you carry at least two magazines, one with lethal and one with non-lethal rounds? Swap them as needed? Good luck with that. There are incidents where a leo killed as suspect while meaning to taze them after confusing the taser, usually worn on the left for a right handed officer, with the Glock on the right.

Most of the small caliber rubber bullets are designed for practice and training and are often propelled only by the primer. I used to do the same thing with wax. They were popular in the quick draw circles so when someone managed to shoot themselves it only stung for a little while.