New asphalt shingle roof - some nails showing

[Dan_Musicant]

:> Dan :Forget the city inspector- pay a couple hundred to a licensed inspector, or :engineer if available, for a signed inspection of the entire roof system. :Send a copy to the roofing company with a letter saying you ain't paying :until they fix (or rework) the flaws addressed in the inspection. Tell the :the roofing company that if they don't care to make good on the work they :promised in the contract, the next letter will be from your attorney. : :aem sends...

I think it would have to be a licensed inspector who specializes in roofs. A general inspector wouldn't really qualify as an expert. How would I go about finding a qualified roof inspector? I'm afraid that these guys aren't going to want to do what's necessary to fix the problems. The project manager is going to visit today or tomorrow. I'll see what he says. Meantime, I'm thinking I should line up a real and authenticated inspection by a third party. Where can I find such a person? I'm in Berkeley, CA. Would the California State Contractor's Licencing Board be able to furnish me with some ideas? TIA.

Dan

[Michael Daly]

The obvious test of whether the roof framing is adequate is that it has survived, what, 90 years? That's a pretty good indicator that you don't really need to fix it. Building codes provide for uniformity and safety over large regions. Local variations can be safe even if not to code. I'm not advocating ignoring code, but in your case, the proof is in the pudding.

Mike

[m Ransley]

Complain to the inspection dept there is a guy in charge, there is alot that can be seen from the underside too, rotted wood left. Or hire a roofer, but this is the citys job, this is why you paid, they are supposed to enforce proper building codes, thats their job. Im sure you can find a few higher ups in different departments to complain to, by email or leaving a message even the mayor would be interested in an inspector to lazy to confirm your concerns. At least you hold all the cards, the $$.

[m Ransley]

A roofer is qualified., get his opinion in writing.

[Doug Kanter]

Deal yourself extra cards to be sure you end up with an ace:

1) Call the office of a large realtor and ask for names of inspectors. Plenty of home buyers don't know any inspectors, but need one when they're buying a home, so realtors MUST have names handy. If there's any such thing as a "roof inspector" (and I don't think there is), you'll find out when you call one of the "regular" inspectors.

2) Call a couple of architects offices and ask the same question.

[Dan_Musicant]

:> :> Dan :> :Forget the city inspector- pay a couple hundred to a licensed inspector, :> or :> :engineer if available, for a signed inspection of the entire roof system. :> :Send a copy to the roofing company with a letter saying you ain't paying :> :until they fix (or rework) the flaws addressed in the inspection. Tell :> the :> :the roofing company that if they don't care to make good on the work they :> :promised in the contract, the next letter will be from your attorney. :> : :> :aem sends... :>

:> I think it would have to be a licensed inspector who specializes in :> roofs. A general inspector wouldn't really qualify as an expert. How :> would I go about finding a qualified roof inspector? I'm afraid that :> these guys aren't going to want to do what's necessary to fix the :> problems. The project manager is going to visit today or tomorrow. I'll :> see what he says. Meantime, I'm thinking I should line up a real and :> authenticated inspection by a third party. Where can I find such a :> person? I'm in Berkeley, CA. Would the California State Contractor's :> Licencing Board be able to furnish me with some ideas? TIA. :>

:> Dan :>

: :Deal yourself extra cards to be sure you end up with an ace: : :1) Call the office of a large realtor and ask for names of inspectors. :Plenty of home buyers don't know any inspectors, but need one when they're :buying a home, so realtors MUST have names handy. If there's any such thing :as a "roof inspector" (and I don't think there is), you'll find out when you :call one of the "regular" inspectors. : :2) Call a couple of architects offices and ask the same question. :

I had another thought. I have a couple of inspections of the property that were done for the previous owner. Those property inspection services might know who's qualified to do a competent and thorough roof inspection. I could call and ask.

I guess you may be saying the same thing - to get names of inspectors from large local realtors and ask THEM.

[Doug Kanter]

Right. Unless you're in Rochester NY, in which case you want to call Jerry Ludwig and forget everyone else.

[Dan_Musicant]

:> :Deal yourself extra cards to be sure you end up with an ace: :> : :> :1) Call the office of a large realtor and ask for names of inspectors. :> :Plenty of home buyers don't know any inspectors, but need one when :> they're :> :buying a home, so realtors MUST have names handy. If there's any such :> thing :> :as a "roof inspector" (and I don't think there is), you'll find out when :> you :> :call one of the "regular" inspectors. :> : :> :2) Call a couple of architects offices and ask the same question. :> : :>

:> I had another thought. I have a couple of inspections of the property :> that were done for the previous owner. Those property inspection :> services might know who's qualified to do a competent and thorough roof :> inspection. I could call and ask. :>

:> I guess you may be saying the same thing - to get names of inspectors :> from large local realtors and ask THEM. : :Right. Unless you're in Rochester NY, in which case you want to call Jerry :Ludwig and forget everyone else.

Nope, it's Berkeley, CA. I called one realtor and she called a local roofer and called me back and gave his cell number and I'm vacillating. I never heard of the company, but she says they are a reputable roofer with 15 years experience. The roofer I called the other day I know to be a big reputable roofer. They said they'd charge $300 for the inspection. I guess I can call this guy who's company I've never heard of a and get a feeling about him and say I may call him back. That's only fair. At this point I'm more hoping for accurate information than something I can present as evidence in court. I'm hoping I can just get the current roofer to fix what should be fixed before paying him. That's assuming the job was basically adequate, which is something I wouldn't know for a fact at this point.

[Doug Kanter]

When it's all over, be sure you register a complaint with the BBB. They may be largely powerless, but at least the next customer who calls them will find out that your roofer is a slob.

[KLS]

Or Larry Warren and his firm, when Jerry's too busy. I've used Larry

4x, and I've never felt he missed anything.

[Doug Kanter]

Thanks. He goes into the Really Huge File of home things.

[kenneigh]

The BBB can serve as a registry for complaints, but it can't compel any action.

This is to inform home owners interested in purchasing replacement home windows about one couple's experience with a Northern Virginia firm, CONSUMER CONSTRUCTION, INC.

In June 1999, Consumer Construction, Inc., Woodbridge, VA 22191,

703-491-0745, furnished and installed 13 ea. replacement vinyl windows, Carefree brand, with Low E glass and argon gas. Cost: $4,200.

Initially my wife Robin and I were generally pleased with the product, however one double-hung unit toally filmed over within three years on the inner (sealed) surfaces. Those surfaces cannot be cleaned.

We left several phone messages with Consumer Construction, Inc. (hereinafter called the "company') but received no response. In June

2004, we sent the company an e-mail mesage via its e-mail response line. A male from the company phoned and agreed to inspect the window, but never showed up.

We subsequently contacted the Better Business Bureau (BBB) of Greater Washington, D.C. (202-393-8000,

which made contact with the company. A company representative came to our house in May 2005, and found that nine (9) windows had some degree of filming due he said to "inner moisture."

The company agreed to contact the manufacturer to obtain an on-site inspection, but a few weeks later, it was determined by the company that the manufacturer of Carefree brand windows had gone bankrupt and out of business. The company subsequently told us that it, therefore, would not replace at no cost any of the filmed windows, since the manufacturer was no longer in business. "I am at a dead end," we were told by the company manager, Mr. Mitchell.

We went back to the BBB with this information; the BBB agreed to try to arrange for arbitration of our case, but were met with silence on the matter. The case remains in an unresolved category.

To summarize my wife's and my position, we believe that, at a minimum, Consumer Construction, Inc. should be willing to replace at no cost the two windows that are completely filmed over, especially since the company's own inspector remarked, "You don't need blinds for these [filmed windows]."

Consumer Construction's position is unacceptable to us, as customers, and we believe it fails to meet standards of responsible business practice as well. Consumer Construction SOLD us windows that failed; THEY bear primary responsibility for resolving this case to our satisfaction. The company's position is like a food market telling a customer to go to the farmer who raised the steer from which a spoiled cut of meat was originally obtained!

(It would be interesting to know how many of the company's other customers have incurred problems such as ours.)

Ken Spalding Dale City, VA

[Dan_Musicant]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:06:13 GMT, "ameijers" wrote:

: :"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message :news: [e-mail]... :> They just finished my roof job, complete tearoff to skip sheathing and :> installation of 50 year architectural asphalt composition shingles. :> Mostly they seem to have done good work, but on the rather big north :> dormer they got sloppy when nailing on the shingles and I saw many nail :> heads, maybe 20 just looking around. I told the project manager about :> this and he said they'd replace those shingles. Yesterday, the crew :> chief came back with one other guy and replaced a bunch of the shingles. :> I went up their after they left and still see quite a few nails, at :> least 1/2 a dozen, and I didn't look very carefully. I believe these are :> 1.25" galvanized roofing nails and they put them in with a neumatic :> nailer. Should I call them back? Should I just cover them with some :> butyl rubber caulk (I have a tube) or a spot of black roofing cement (I :> have a couple of gallons left)? I got a can of matching spray paint from :> them, and I could squirt a shot of it on the nail heads or caulk/cement :> to hide them and for whatever protection it's worth. Thanks. :>

:> Dan :Forget the city inspector- pay a couple hundred to a licensed inspector, or :engineer if available, for a signed inspection of the entire roof system. :Send a copy to the roofing company with a letter saying you ain't paying :until they fix (or rework) the flaws addressed in the inspection. Tell the :the roofing company that if they don't care to make good on the work they :promised in the contract, the next letter will be from your attorney. : :aem sends...

I'm having trouble finding an inspector. I called the city planning department and talked to the chief inspector and he said sometimes they don't want to go up there because they don't feel safe. I can walk everywhere on my roof without holding on, although I prefer to hold a gable rafter, etc. on the steeper portions. The chief inspector said he'd come over and if I had a ladder and it wasn't too steep he'd do a competent inspection. However, he didn't come at the appointed hour (2.5 hours after I called him). I don't want to get on the wrong side of any inspector, much less the chief inspector so I'm not calling him back and will leave the planning department alone and just hope they forget who I am. I was a little testy with the guy on the phone, partly because they'd passed on the roof while looking at it from the ground and no more.

I called what seemed like the best roofing company that I'd had bid the roof. The guy said they'd inspect it for $300 and said to call him back if I still wanted the inspection when my roofer was done. I called him a few days later and left a message and he calls me back leaves a message and he obviously was having cold feet. He didn't want to get between me and my roofer (his competitor), for fear of getting involved in litigation. I think there was more to it than that - he doesn't want to set a precedent of one company picking apart another's work. If that starts happening, there's no telling where it will end. He says I should check out

and try to get a roofing consultant to inspect my roof (I go to the site and send them an email asking if they could inspect my roof, about 4-5 days ago now, but they haven't responded.) I called him back and left HIM a message that I've never been involved in litigation in my life and don't anticipate my roof job being involved in litigation, I just want an expert's analysis of the roof job so I'll know if I should insist that my roofer repair defects before I pay him. He calls me back a day or two later and we have a conversation and I start describing in detail some of the problems I was having with the roof job. Something interupted him and he asked if he could call me back. That was about 3 days ago and he has not called me back.

I also called a roofer that I was referred to by a large local real estate agent (I called them). I had a conversation with him on the phone and he said he does roofs but he's not much on the paperwork and he can't see himself writing a report.

So, I'm having a tough time finding anyone to inspect my roof. The project manager, up until today has addressed most all the issues I've brought up, but he seems to be sticking with his position that if he can't see an exposed nail looking down at it perpendicular to the roof surface, then he won't replace it. He says he'll come over Monday and look at the nails I marked with a piece of masking tape and decide. He's the only person who has said that it's OK to have an exposed nail if you have to look from the side to see it.

Dan

[m Ransley]

The city inspector works for you , your fee and taxes pay him, keep on him , he will come out. Dont feel like you are bothering him , its his paid job to assist you, even in court.

[Doug Kanter]

You were given a couple of suggestions that should have worked:

1) Call a major real estate company like Century 21 and get the name of an inspector. When people buy homes in your neck of the woods, do they make the purchase offers contingent on inspection? There *have* to be inspectors. 2) Buy a SPOTTING SCOPE, even a cheap one. Use it to see the problem from ground level. That may alleviate the fears some people are having.

Have you tried either of these two things?

[Norminn]

If you write a letter to the guy, it is part of the public record. I would stay off the phone and send a couple of letters. First, a "sorry I missed you" letter to the city guy, giving the date/time of the very iffy appointment he made to get you off his back. State the defects that were left at completion of the job and those which have been corrected since which you maintained were to bring the installation in line with the mfg.'s instructions. Tell the city guy, nicely, that you would like him to review the defects you state and determine whether the job is considered satisfactory. Don't settle for a verbal opinion.

Then, write a nice business-like letter to the contractor and list the defects that were present at "completion". Send it certified mail, with a cc certified mail to the licensing authority.

There aren't many contractors who relish writing a review of work done by a competitor that is negative or that might bring them to testify in court, especially if they aren't being paid. They are in biz to do roofs, not settle disputes, and their time is $.

Being a nice guy has it's limits, and you've gone beyond the normal effort in trying to get resolution. He owed you a roof without defects

- it is what you paid him for, nothing less.

[Dan_Musicant]

Prudential Coldwell Banker

Prudential recommended a guy and he's the one who said he wasn't up to doing an inspection. Nice guy to talk to, though.

Coldwell Banker had a lot of ideas and the first one that came to her mind was the one I had already called, my high bidder, whose bid looked very fancy with a big yellow sticker sayind "Sign here." That's the guy who said he'd do the inspection and then seemed to chicken out.

The spotting scope seems a little far fetched. I have a tripod, and maybe it would work, but I don't know where I'd get that. A big sporting good's store? A gun shop? I figure I should have the roof inspected by someone who's not afraid to climb up there in the first place. What benefit is it for me to have some coward looking through a spotting scope. An inspector should be willing to get up there. If it's a municipal inspector and he won't, why should I be wanting to impress him with what he'll see with a scope? I don't want to get the municipal inspector's involved in this. I want to keep a low profile with those guys. Like a friend of mine said, I don't want to get on their wrong side.

Dan

[Dan_Musicant]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:26:36 GMT, Norminn wrote:

:m Ransley wrote: :> The city inspector works for you , your fee and taxes pay him, keep on :> him , he will come out. Dont feel like you are bothering him , its his :> paid job to assist you, even in court. :> : :If you write a letter to the guy, it is part of the public record. I :would stay off the phone and send a couple of letters. First, a "sorry :I missed you" letter to the city guy, giving the date/time of the very :iffy appointment he made to get you off his back. State the defects :that were left at completion of the job and those which have been :corrected since which you maintained were to bring the installation in :line with the mfg.'s instructions. Tell the city guy, nicely, that you :would like him to review the defects you state and determine whether the :job is considered satisfactory. Don't settle for a verbal opinion. : :Then, write a nice business-like letter to the contractor and list the :defects that were present at "completion". Send it certified mail, with :a cc certified mail to the licensing authority. : :There aren't many contractors who relish writing a review of work done :by a competitor that is negative or that might bring them to testify in :court, especially if they aren't being paid. They are in biz to do :roofs, not settle disputes, and their time is $. : :Being a nice guy has it's limits, and you've gone beyond the normal :effort in trying to get resolution. He owed you a roof without defects :- it is what you paid him for, nothing less.

Thanks. In fact, the contractor has not yet been paid. He refunded my deposit because I just got into a city program set up to help citizens finance home repairs and that agency wants to pay the full amount, not just the amount after the deposit. The agency just gave me the check (90% of the invoice amount, the balance to be paid 35 days after completion) with instructions to send it to the contractor when I'm satisfied that the job has been done correctly. I was close to wanting to send out that check until yesterday when I got up on the roof and found about 40 visible nails in addition to about a dozen shingles that had nail holes in them! I know for a fact that that's a big no no. If a worker misses with a nail, leaving it exposed, he's not supposed to pull the nail and place another, he's supposed to replace the shingle. Called the contractor, first told him about the dozen shingles with visible nail holes and then the 40 others and he says "if I can't see them from directly overhead, I'm not going to replace them." I was truly dumbfounded. After a few seconds of silence he adds, "I'll come over Monday and have a look," and that's where the conversation ended.

When I spoke to the woman at the city agency the other day and told her about the contractor's admonition that he'd fix no nails that he couldn't see from directly above, she said to get it in writing. Tomorrow, if the contractor says the same thing I'm probably going to tell him two things:

1. that I've run this issue by a whole lot of people and he's the only one who says it's OK to have an exposed nail as long as you can't see it from directly above.

1. I want that in writing.

I don't think I'll ever hire another contractor who has a dozen crews working, certainly not if it's the kind of work where workmanship is the most important aspect of the job.

[Dan_Musicant]

:m Ransley wrote: :> The city inspector works for you , your fee and taxes pay him, keep on :> him , he will come out. Dont feel like you are bothering him , its his :> paid job to assist you, even in court. :> : :If you write a letter to the guy, it is part of the public record. I :would stay off the phone and send a couple of letters. First, a "sorry :I missed you" letter to the city guy, giving the date/time of the very :iffy appointment he made to get you off his back. State the defects :that were left at completion of the job and those which have been :corrected since which you maintained were to bring the installation in :line with the mfg.'s instructions. Tell the city guy, nicely, that you :would like him to review the defects you state and determine whether the :job is considered satisfactory. Don't settle for a verbal opinion. : :Then, write a nice business-like letter to the contractor and list the :defects that were present at "completion". Send it certified mail, with :a cc certified mail to the licensing authority.

If the contractor balks at replacing the shingles with visible nails, this sounds like a good plan. Really, this contractor has shown a lot of willingness to fix mistakes and problems. However, he's being stubborn about the visible nails. Actually, there are some (probably 1/2 a dozen, maybe more) that I didn't even mark, because the nails look like they are 1/4", maybe more under the overhanging shingle. I figure that maybe those won't be visible once the shingles' adhesive holds them down. However, the ones I marked are worse than those. I'm sure there are more that I haven't noticed. The fact that rankles me some is that the contractor and his men appear to have no inclination to seek these problems out themselves. I think that as conscientious workmen they should have inspected the job and corrected problems and not put the burden on me, a 62 year old homeowner without ladders to find all the errors on his 2 story house. : :There aren't many contractors who relish writing a review of work done :by a competitor that is negative or that might bring them to testify in :court, especially if they aren't being paid. They are in biz to do :roofs, not settle disputes, and their time is $.

Well, I saw a post that indicated that if it does go to court I'd have to pay witnesses/testifiers $60/hour. Maybe that's an iffy thing. Anyway, I've never been involved in litigation and don't expect this will result in any, but who knows? I hope not! : :Being a nice guy has it's limits, and you've gone beyond the normal :effort in trying to get resolution. He owed you a roof without defects :- it is what you paid him for, nothing less.

As I say, he doesn't have the money yet, but I don't relish this role. A lot of guys worked hard on my roof, I know it. It's a shame that some of them weren't very careful. The weather's been unseasonably good this fall and I know the roofer is making money, probably a lot more money than he anticipated. The California State Licensing Board says I should address my grievances to the licensee and sole owner of the company and noone else. That's the guy who did my estimate and was my sole contact there until the day the project manager arrived on the property with his crew, Oct. 28th. When I've talked with the owner on the phone and said I had some issues, he said he was confident in the judgement of the project manager to fix problems as necessary. The CSLB person I talked to said she'd send me a complaint form if requested, which would go to the state capital.

[Doug Kanter]

Yes. Gun shop or sporting goods place that sells guns. After you're done with it, you can use it to watch wildlife or neighbor ladies undressing. An inspector doesn't need to see the brand name stamped into the nail heads - just that there are nails showing. As far as inspectors, I can't believe that in & around Berkeley, there are no inspectors willing to climb a ladder. It's not like you live in some little hamlet 500 miles from the nearest supermarket. Hit the yellow pages and keep trying.