Major drainage question - please, any advice welcome (long)

[nugz]

Take a shot at this one:

If it rains, why do I get water in my basement? I have a center drain in the basement which rises during a bad storm. Prev owners rigged a half-assed solution it seems as a bandaid fix. What they did was route a 2 inch pvc under the floor which meets this center drain towards the top. This pvc then slopes a few degrees underground and empties into a plastic tub or catch in the floor in the other room under the addition. When I bought this house there was carpeting in the basement which looked used and no signs of water damage. It was covering this center drain. Shortly after moving in, a bad rain storm hit and we got 3 inches of water in the basement.

Since I didn't know what I know now, the tub/catch that the water flows into when a storm causes water to rise high in the center drain, just sits there. Since the water doesn't have anywhere to go, it came out of the center drain and ruined our basement. I have since placed a sump pump into that pit which was convieniently covered up when i purchased the house. I'm pumping water out a basement window via tubing that came with the pump. Haven't gotten any water in the basement since I installed the pump, but I'm forced to leave the door open to accomodate the hose which is routed out the window and connecting to the pump in the pit under the addition. The smell is unbearable and is funneled through the house via the ac and vents.

I've had a few plumbers out there and another is going to come out today to hopefully tell me what the problem is and why its set up this way. My question to you fine folks is, is such a setup common? Its not a true sump setup in the traditional terms. The prev owner never informed us that a pump was needed back there to remove the water and there doesnt seem to be any condiut to allow the pump to move the water out of the house except through my makeshift design which is going out the window.

I'm a first time home owner and me and my wife feel cheated. We loved this house which apparently has some drainage problems. Also, the main big PVC drain appears to have been re-routed after they installed an addition and is running above ground in the basement. The old way out is capped off.

Do I have a serious problem here and what should I do? Short of installing some sort of flood control solution in the front yard, should I just find a way to pump the water through pvc and out of the house via a drilled hole through the basement wall? Is this type of setup even heard of?

[trader4]

Did you have the house inspected by a reputable home inspector before purchasing it? I suspect not, because all this is something that could have been easily uncovered. I'd get a home inspector pronto, to look at not only this problem, but the whole house. It's virtually impossible to diagnose something like this or give solutions without seeing it.

I'd also take a good look at what's going on outside. Is the soil graded away from the house? Are there gutters and are they working? Is water from the leaders led away from the foundation as far as practical? Get out there during a good rain too, to verify what's happening.

If you're facing costly repairs on the basement issue, I'd contact a lawyer, or consider small claims court, depending on the amount. You may have a valid case against the seller, as it sounds like things were done to hide problems that the seller knew about. I'd make sure to take pics now of what happened, showing how it was concealed, etc, before making repairs.

[nugz]

Funny thing is I did have an inspector look at the place and didn't find anything wrong with the plumbing. Only thing he suggested was to cover up the pit that's collecting the overflow since it located under the addition where the back of the old house used to be. I think he sucked as an inspector and Im considering talking legal action against him if thats possible.

Anyway, my gutters are feeding into some drain and is going under ground. Does that usually lead into the city drain before or after my house? In other words, if the city drainage is slow, would the water coming in from the gutters be trying to go out and not have anywhere to go but back into the basement? I had the main drain rodded out and I'm wondering why water still decides to back up during a storm when I'm not flushing toilets or doing laundry. Basically, Im not adding any additional water during a storm from within the house.

[Duane Bozarth]

Because you don't have adequate drainage and waterproofing.

If this was (as it sounds like) an existing problem you may have some recourse in recovering repair costs.

Consult a local geotech guy or contractor for specific advice.

Quite often simply correcting surface drainage and directing downspouts away from foundations is adequate. In more difficult areas it may require rework of the basement wall drainage system.

[nugz]

I'm really appreciating all the feedback guys. I didn't know what that pit was and didn't think anything of it. Thought it was an old catch basin. Maybe that's what's underneath the plastic tub that's collecting the water.

Anyway, last time the basement flooded, the water came up through the center drain. What happened was that the water tried flowing through the pvc that'd "tee'd" to the center drain near the top and into the tub in the other room. Obviously that filled and the water had nowhere to go except out the center drain and flooded us.

Here's where I need the most advice and clarification if at all possible. If I'm not generating any water waste in my house during a storm and the city drainage in the street is really slow, why would I get water backing up in my basement? The only thing I can think of is that my gutters had something to do with this since they feed down the house and straight underground. Where is that water going and did that cause my flood? I had the main rodded shortly after I got most of the water out of the basement and it seemed to help. I'm confused on how the gutters that normally feed into the ground are routed. Can't invision it. I was not home when I got flooded so I'm positive that no water in the house caused it. I assume if the city had slow rain drains and I was emptying out the hot tub or doing laundry, that the water would have no where to go but out the lowest drain in the house which is in the basement.

What Jim posted above makes sense except I dont envision water coming down the gutters and going underground and just spilling into the soil and causing me problems, at least not the flooding in the basement through an open drain. I do understand however, that if the gutters are feeding into the same pipe that's leading out of the house and the city drainage isn't adequate, then water would back up into my house. Is this correct?

What should I ask my plumber about tonight. I want to make the best use of the free estimate.

[nugz]

Again, thanks for the many replies, but the only reason I just didnt plug the center drain was becuase I didnt want water to start coming up through sinks and toilets. Is there anything stopping the water backing up from rising 2 stories and ruining my master bath? Or are there check valves in place to safeguard against this sort of thing? BTW, what is OP?

I may just pay to get a camera down there and get to the bottom of this becuase when the center drain in the basement does back up and overflows into the plastic tub dug into the ground, it smells of sewage.

One other question I would really appreciate help on is the function of a catch basin. I believe that the plastic tub I keep refering to which catches the overflow when the center drain backs up, is sitting in the same hole where the old catch basin used to be. Since this is no longer outside of the house becuase of the addition, it's underneath my new kitchen. If I were to remove this plastic tub, and a catch basin is under there, how does it work?

[Duane Bozarth]

You saw a pit w/ no obvious drainage and didn't think something wrong?

No. Rarely (if ever) do cities allow gutter connections into city sewers. That doesn't mean somebody didn't do something they shouldn't have, of course, but it isn't "usual".

I hope you have some sort of documentation on file re: the original condition. I would assume there are disclosure laws in your state that were followed prior to the sale? If so, I'd check those forms carefully for willful misrepresentation that is definitely documentable. It is quite possible you will have grounds for some recompense from the seller. As for the inspector, that would depend quite a bit on what he actually said in his weasel-words re: the situation.

[Amun]

A lot of places do allow roof drains into sewers.

But these are to storm sewers NOT sanitary sewers. There is two completely different pipes coming on to the property.

Regardless, pipes/sewer lines can plug from collapse, roots, dirt/gravel washing in, etc.

So the OP should check as in another post that the pipe outside is not backing up every time it rains.

Easiest fix is just to run roof gutters above ground and away from the foundation.

As for the rest, I agree with the previous thread, check your sale papers, and hang the inspector.

The OP may not have understood a dry sump with no drain was suspect. But the idiot inspector is paid to know better.

Until the problem is repaired properly though, to save yourself a lot of mopping, plug the drain that keeps backing up with an old rag or even a kids ball that can act as a cork.

AMUN

[Amun]

OP is short for "original post(er) the one who started the thread.

But first of all this is a problem for a real plumber/ sewer company not anything for the internet. As all anyone here can do is give "best guesses".

I'm starting to think the tub you referred to is an old "sump pump", and the pipe to the sewer was the original "overflow" that was intended to let water out if the sump pump failed. And it's unlikely there is both a sump pump AND storm sewers so that pipe is likely to a sanitary sewer

There should not be any check valves in any of the sewer pipes, but water won't back up two floors It would blow out any plug you put in the basement long before. and rainwater for downspouts would stop once it his ground level.

But don't worry much about plugging the drain. The key here is fix the reason why it backs up in the first place as soon as possible.

A plumber in your home, or "rooter" guys will tell you fast what needs to be done.

AMUN

[Jim-Poncin]

It should be.

This could easily be the problem. If the drain your gutters feed into is clogged or broken, then all that water builds up in the ground around your foundation. During a rain storm, does this drain back up? Rent a drain clearing unit, "snake" or whatever they call it, and see if its plugged up. What about letting the gutter water drain off on the surface?

In other words, if the city drainage is slow, would the water

[Jim-Poncin]

Probably this inside the basement tub/drain connects to the underground gutter drain. If that drain is plugged or broken or just too small to accomodate gutter input, it has to go somewhere and backs up into your basement tubs drain.

Yeah. Can you simply have the gutters drain onto the surface? The current setup is probably an underground gravel filled hole that these drains lead to, and something has gone wrong so the water isn't, or maybe never did, quickly flowing into it. Hence, the water backs up the tub drain.

If all this is caused by gutter water, and you can drain the gutters onto the surface and away from the house with some gutter work, you don't need a plumber.