On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 5:15:51 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
Good grief. There are all kinds of repairs where you don't
know for sure if it's going to work or if it's going to last.
A repair guy isn't superman with X-ray vision. You could fix
one leak and maybe they know from experience that with the
crap systems today that only last 10 to 15 years, that once
you have one leak, you typically have more in another year
or two. I'm not saying I know that for a fact, just that
just maybe the companies involved may know from experience more
than those of us that don't service these every day. Also, these
systems are greatly affected by the competence of the installers.
If you don't give a damn, contaminate the thing when you
install it, then they are not going to last, have a higher
failure rate, etc. How about the tech sees a tag on the eqpt that
says "XYZ HVAC" and he knows they are shysters and their systems
have lots of problems?
As reported, he topped it off a month or so ago and it worked
for a month until apparently the refrigerant was gone, again.
And then after $500 or $1000 worth of work, the customer says
"you didn't fix it, I'm not paying". You obviously don't have
experience with how many people operate today. They forget
what was told to them and/or ignore what's in writing. Or you
fix it and six months later, it craps out again. Many customers
are going to be kind of like you..... "Mr. Repair guy, you
should have made sure that it was going to last before you fixed it."
With a new system, you avoid all that.
You're jumping to the conclusion that a new system is totally
unjustified. It's possible the companies have
experience and know what often happens and are basing their advice
in part on that. And I never tried to tell you or anyone that the
right choice was a new system. In fact, in the original post, I said
that if it were my system, I would have insisted they search for
the source of the actual leak and then make the determination.
But on the other hand, these systems
seem to last 10 to 15 years today. This one was already 5 years old
with most of that previous history unknown.
I'm not sure how much more I'd put into it. That
original service call was probably $200+. Fixing a leak, even if
it doesn't involve a new evaporator, etc is going to cost hundreds
Nowadays, ripped off? That is your fault. Most every where they try to
rip you off. I do most maintenance myself even if I have to invest some
special tools. Gives me peace of mind. Only thing I am not good at is
carpentry. Maybe because I am lefty.
Respectfully disagree, Mr. Hwang. To be able to protect yourself from
fraudsters typically requires having a lot of information and education the
average person just doesn't have. It's not just a problem with cars, but
with home repairs, choosing doctors, etc.
Say you're on the NJ Turnpike and you stop for gas and while you're getting
fueled you go to the men's room. When you come back to the car, a mechanic,
acting like a genuine hero, says (after sprinkling iron filings) your fan
belt is going to fail in very short order. If you're the average guy and
not much of a mechanic, you'd think about what happens if your fan fails
somewhere further down the road, or at night and perhaps decide to let him
I wouldn't say most everywhere, but it's getting more and more prevalent as
technology gets more and more complicated. Compare the Chrysler Air Temp
furnance (from the 40's) that was here when I moved in. I could fix it
myself because it was utterly simple. Not so the modern furnace. How many
people (outside of AHR) know what a draft inducer motor is or why such a
(relatively) cheap item could cause total furnace failure?
I used to, too but age has curtailed a lot of my ability to do things like
crawl under cars. Worse, yet, when I watch people work I often shudder at
how poorly they've been trained.
(-; You "sinister" person, you!
In the study of origins, it was always better to be "right" than wrong, or
Words associated with the right side are generally complimentary or have
signified something desirable, but those pointing to the left are quite the
opposite. For example, even in modern times, everyone tries to get up on the
"right" side of the bed and hopes to stay on the "right" side of one's boss;
that is, if the person is in his/her "right" mind.
Other languages reflect the same bias in favor of the right and against the
left. In Latin, the word for "right" is dexter, from which has come the
English word dexterous or dextrous; meaning "skillful". This is what a
person who uses the "right" hand is expected to be.
An ambidextrous person should be even more skillful, since he is described
as having two "right hands.
On the other hand, the Latin sinister is the left hand, that is, the wrong
hand. Furthermore, left-handers were thought to be unlucky.
In Roman augury, or fortune telling, birds that appeared on the left side
were interpreted as being bad luck; however, those on the right side
presaged good luck. Now, in modern English applications, sinister means evil
"Lefties" have not been regarded with a positive attitude even in French and
The French word for "left" is gauche (GOHSH), which indicates awkwardness or
lack of social graces. "A guest who drinks from the finger bowl, no matter
how dexterously he handles it, is still gauche."
English also has favored the right over the left. The word "right" developed
from Old English riht, which meant "to lead straight; to guide; to rule."
Left evolved from Old English lyft, which meant "weak".
English prejudice against the left can be seen in such terms as "two left
feet", meaning "awkward", and "left-handed compliment", which is not
considered as a compliment!
-Excerpts from The Story Behind the Word by Morton S. Freeman;
iSi Press; Philadelphia; 1985; pages 228-229.
I couldn't agree more. I used to do all my own repairs (home, appliance,
auto, electrical, etc.) but can't anymore. Technology has taken over,
and what used to be a simple auto repair takes lots of tech knowledge and
sometimes special tools and meters. I gave up about five years ago. Now
I hire repairmen, and I have to ask myself 'do I trust this repairman, or
not?', and live with the consequences, good or bad.
Long story short...A few months ago, my 18 year old AC was not cooling.
A new fan was installed, but the problem persisted. Then I was told it
was the compressor, and that they could replace the entire system,
including the furnace, for $10K. I called another company in for a second
opinion. The second opinion was that the first company installed the
wrong fan. It turned out they did install the wrong fan. I went back to
the first company, and they had egg on their face. They came out and
installed the proper fan, and it's been cool since.
I complained to their customer service manager, that they almost cost me
$10K, and I asked for reimbursement for the second opinion. They
reimbursed me for the cost of the second opinion, and gave me a 12-month
service contract on both my solar and HVAC equipment, free.
This left/thing has always fascinated me. I once heard that left handed
people were on average, smarter than right handed people. I began
observing left handed people, and they were mostly my bosses. I'm right
If it leaks out in a month, should be a fairly
slow leak. Ought to be possible to find and
fix the leak.
I've got a couple "friends" who had a leaky system.
I'd valved it off, and put in some test charge,
to determine if it was indoor or outdoor leak.
Called several times to follow up. No answer. Met
them later, and they told me they "just had the
system replaced". But aparently, not by me. Some
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:49:10 -0400, Stormin Mormon
It happens a lot. There seems to be some kind of dynamic going on
where people don't like to see a friend making money if it's "off
them". My Dad was a RE Broker and told his friends if they were
buying a new house to go thru him and he could get them half the
commission back. A few would but most would just go straight to the
Home Sales Office and cut him out and also cut themselves out to the
tune of thousand$ in lost commission they could have split. A lot of
the time they's day 'Oh we didn't want to bother you" as if anyone
would be bothered by spending a couple hours to make a couple
thousand... not to mention the people themselves were also losing out
on a couple thousand.
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