Just had a strange conversation with PG&E about an illegal pole on my property

I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

Reply to
Mel Knight
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I'd first want to know who owns the pole. Does the power company own it or the telephone company? If it's located on your property, there should be an easement. It's also possible that if it's been there long enough, the owner has a right of way

Reply to
RBM

An old girlfriend's father had a similar situation where there was no easement, the pole had been there for years, and he still managed to get them to move the line. Unfortunately he's no longer around so I can't ask him how he managed to do it.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

Standard disclaimer- IANAL. Having said that- sometimes easements for utility right-of-ways are recorded against the subdivision when it is first platted out, and do not get spelled out in detail on all the individual land deeds, especially when the deed is a 'lot number' deed rather than a complete traditional description. Title company reports are often incomplete, since they are mainly looking for open liens and competing ownership claims and such. Too bad most areas are no longer offering abstracts (and in fact buying up and destroying old abstracts) when property changes hands these days. There is a reason mortgage companies require title insurance, in case something like this crawls out of the woodwork.

You or an expert you hire needs to go down to whatever unit of government (usually the county, but sometimes the township) keeps the property books for your area. If there was an easement, it will be recorded somewhere. Unless you live in an older urban area, odds are you won't have to go back too far. Walk up and down the run of wire, and look for data plates on the poles. In this part of country, they often include a year on them. That will give you a place to start backward from.

Unless the pole is causing you problems and/or there is no recorded easement, what they will probably do is offer you a token sum to sign an easement and waive the right to sue to make them remove the pole. It is possible that some installation crew just dropped a pole there because that is the route they needed to take, and assumed an easement was in place, because the route was on the work order. If there is no easement, you could force them to reroute the line (or try to), but whoever lives at the end of it may then want to get involved, and try to claim an easement by open and notorious usage or something.

So how mad are you? Is it worth hiring lawyers over? And how long has the pole been there?

Reply to
aemeijers

I'm not mad. I just don't want poles and wires crossing my property if I don't have to have it so.

My first inclination is to just tell them to remove it.

My second inclination is to see what they offer (but unless it's on the order of tens of thousands of dollars, I'll default to my first inclination).

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other poles).

I gave the PG&E guys the pole number but there is no date or other identifying information in this part of the country (California) on the poles out here.

Reply to
Mel Knight

How long have you lived there???

Reply to
hrhofmann

What kind of area is this? What matters is not whether there is a pole (or anything else) on the report. What matters is whether there is an easement on the property. In many residential areas EVERY property has an easement, in which case, they can pretty much put a pole there if they feel like it...

You don't say specifically, but do I gather from your wording that you bought this property recently without noticing the pole?

Reply to
Larry Fishel

Maybe he didn't notice the pole going up because he was looking down at his dirt.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

Reply to
hallerb

Dear PG&E,

You have a pole on my property and wires from it that cross my property. Remove the pole and wires.

If you prefer to purchase an easement, make me an offer.

If you prefer to rent the space, make me an offer.

Yours truly,

Harried Homeowner

Reply to
dadiOH

Yes. I bought the property within the year. It's rural. There's not another home within hundreds of yards, and it's all wooded. The pole is near the main street (within the easement of the main road) but the wires cut over my property.

There are other poles, but their wires go along the street, and I assume the main street easement covers the poles. My property goes to the center of each of the streets but the street easements go side to side some thirty feet.

The pole is within the street easements (but I don't know if the street easements allow for poles) but the wires go over my property where there is no easement.

Reply to
Mel Knight

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street. The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

Reply to
Mel Knight

I did. The phone company says they "rent" the poles from the power company. It's the power company I've been talking to for all this time.

I could go back and tell the phone company to remove "their rent" from the pole, I guess.

That's an option. Thanks. I didn't really think of that. Maybe they can put pressure on the power company then to remove their pole.

That's a good idea. That's the kind of ideas I was looking for.

Reply to
Mel Knight

six months

Reply to
Mel Knight

What's it hurting, first?

Second, what did the attorney that handled the property purchase have to say as far as what are the local/state ordinances in effect regarding easements (you _did_ have an attorney, didn't you)?

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Reply to
dpb

Mel Knight wrote in news:iglhuo$okb$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

The problem may be serious for you in that if or when you ever want to sell the property you will have to disclose the existence of the wires across the property to prospective buyers. Some buyers may make removal of the wires a condition of sale and you will then need to correct it under pressure of sale and time. So get it fixed now or settle the issue while there is no rush.

The best first step is to write a letter to the power company telling them of the wires and requiring them to relocate the poles in such a way that the wires do not cross your property. It is most likely that they will make you a cash offer for the right to leave the wires in place. You then decide whether it is a small enough issue that it is worth it to accept the cash. Best to consult with a lawyer about the ramifications of leaving the wires in place. If you take the cash you will be stuck with the wires forever and so will future buyers of the property.

Maybe even ask the lawyer if you have recourse on the people who sold you the property with the wires and did not disclose it to you. Whether they knew about them or not, they probably signed something to the effect that there were no encumberances or some such things. Maybe it is their responsibility to get the wires removed.

Reply to
Reno

One time the phone company ran poles and wires across quite a large part of a farmers field. After it was there for a while and in service, the farmer went out late at night with a shotgun where the wires hung the lowest and blasted it to bits. News reported thousands and thousands of phones stopped working. The repair crew found the fault and in a day or two or three ran a new cable along the road on existing poles about 5 extra miles around the farmers field.

I suppose you would probably get caught using that solution unless there is no one within a mile or so of your property.

Reply to
Tony Miklos

My assumption is based on the fact that there is no underlying easement that allows that pole and it's overhanging wires.

I just got off the phone with the title company who said I can submit a claim to them if PG&E refuses to move the pole and if I have a use for the land under the wires.

I spoke earlier with PG&E who said only that if the pole has no easement then they will ask me what I want to do to correct the situation (they were extremely vague).

I was just looking for ideas of how best to handle this from you guys. And, if anyone knows the value of a "power line easement", that they would tell me their experience (I have no idea if it's worth one dollar or one hundred thousand dollars, for example).

Reply to
Mel Knight

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 20:02:14 +0000 (UTC), Mel Knight wrote Re Re: Just had a strange conversation with PG&E about an illegal pole on my property:

The value of the easement is determined by what "enjoyment" of your land is lost by the presence of the pole & lines. IOW, how are you inconvenienced by their presence? The more "enjoyment" you forgo, the more costly the easement.

Since you didn't really notice (any negative impact) for several months, be prepared for PGE to argue that it doesn't have much of an impact on you.

Reply to
Caesar Romano

Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases. Around here, the contracts are all take-it-or-leave-it pre-printed boilerplate, so an attorney is pointless. They will NOT make changes. It's a regional thing.

Reply to
aemeijers

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