Easement cost can very widely. As a rule of thumb you might use one fourth of the value of the land. The pole is in the street and okay. Moving the wires is not going to cost much so the power co. is unlikely to want to pay for an easement. You can ask nicely that they move them and they probably will. Might mean that they will add a anchor to that pole you don't like.
In California, it's almost unheard of to have an attorney present when you purchase a home. Dunno why. Just is.
Ameicans have atorneys involved in just about anything else - why not a real estate transaction - quite possibly the largest investment of your life????
Because in most states, unless it is a private person-to-person sale, you have a Realtor (c) or two involved. They have boilerplate contracts they have to use, or lose their membership or something. And the title transfer houses (which seem to be a bastard cross between a lawyer and a bank) are in on the racket. I showed the paperwork to a lawyer buddy of mine, and he said just go with the flow. Beyond getting their massive cut for a few hours work, they aren't interested in screwing the buyers.
Given that the canned contract is written in stone, a lawyer simply adds no value. Not like a commercial real estate deal, where you are starting with a blank piece of paper, and everything is negotiable. All the realtors use exactly the same forms, and they all act like they were handed down from God.
Now, the house I bought in Louisiana did involve a lawyer, but he didn't do anything more than the title company here in Michigan did. His clerk made up the canned paperwork (at least not a pre-printed form), he signed his name a few times, and made a couple hundred bucks. And in both states, of course, they tacked on all sorts of meaningless junk fees just because they could. I think I ran through half a pad of checks that day, and I'm pretty sure one was for the pizza that was getting delivered as I left.
Next time, I think I'm gonna try paying with a briefcase full of cash. Of course, the feds would be after me within hours if I did that. Or a FSBO sale, with the exchange taking place at a bank.
Thats one of the problems. Simple things became intentionally way too complicated because of powerful lobbies. Just consider most legislators are lawyers.
It gets really tiring hearing government folks asking "are you a lawyer" as a roadblock when you are researching properties etc at the local courthouse.
Same exact deal with taxes. Get rid of all of the tax forms and accounting procedures, exemptions, credits whatever and replace it with a flat tax based on consumption with exemption for basic stuff such as food much the same way sales taxes are applied.
Same for person to person. I bought a property directly from the owner. We had to go to a title company where they use the same standardized forms that everyone must use.
Not clear here but it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and only the wires cross the property. That would complicate the 'easement' problem as you have lost no useable land and the wires probably do not affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.
We recently had a case here where the local power company wanted to replace a power line crossing a field with a "High Line". Original easement was in the 40s for the usual type construction (wood pole, not all that higher, etc.). Power co thought they could just replace the line with huge steel towers, very tall and multiple conductors for very high voltage feed to a substation. Nope. That prevented the land owner from using aerial application of pesticides and fertilyzers. End result was they had to repurchas the ROW at a very high cost.
Harry K
Later down thread people are talking about 'moving the wires'. That will obviously mean moving the pole no matter where it is located.
The way to 'handle' the situation is to first determine that there is indeed no easement. If there isn't then ask/require them to move the wires. That's what they want you to do. The hassle and cost of determining that there is no easement is all your's. If you don't do that they have no problem at all, just some complaining from you, so why should they do anything?
Moving the wires would require at least relocating one pole, maybe adding one pole. Estimate $1,000 for materials and 4 hours of equipment at $100/hr, 2 men for 4 hours = 8 manhours at $50/hour and it may cost them about $1800 to move the wires. They could offer you half that, $900, to save themselves the trouble. They would have additional expense of legal and title fees to ensure any easement that buys them is properly done. So they would not be any money ahead if they offered you $900. To make it better from their standpoint they may offer much less. I doubt you'd get much over the $500 to $1,000 range. If I was them I'd just move the wires and have it done with - a lot less office time and bother. They won't do anything at all though if you don't start the process.
You said the poles are on an easement its just the wire thats a problem.. lots of luck on this
Jimmie
I loved your analysis. Since it's not in the tens of thousands range, I'll stick with the "please remove it".
The title company and I have determined there is no underlying easement (although the pole itself is covered by the roadway easement).
So, I'll write them a letter, telling them the pole and wires have no underlying easement and that we need to "discuss" the matter. They will probably counter with the pole having an easement but the wires not having an easement - and then we'll see what happens.
Thanks for all the ideas. This is wholly new stuff to me!
Yup. Most likely (according to the title company).
According to the title company, that's not an issue (of course, that's up to the courts to decide). The title company said that I could put in a "claim" to them if it costs me money to relocate the wires, if they "missed" an easement, or if I have costs associated with an easement that they missed.
Since there is no easement (that we know of), then I'm expecting the power company to relocate the wires. Where or how they relocate them isn't my issue as long as it's not over my property.
I didn't see this reply until now, but, the title company didn't say anything about losing "use of the land", so, I hope that's not a factor.
Thanks for the ideas!
Sadly what you want and what the law allows are two totally separate things...
(If you did and you are complaining about it now, rather than at the time of sale when you should have asked about it, is like complaining that there is an increase of traffic on a rail spur line that abuts your property... The rail line [in your case a pole and wires] existed before you owned the property and the appropriate time for your objection has come and gone and if you want it moved at this point you would have to pay for all of the costs involved with that because you failed to do your bona fides and properly determine that the wire in dispute had no specific easement prior to purchase...)
(Zoning law usually prohibits zero-lot line construction, so you will own land that you can not build on, if the wires cross an un-buildable portion of your site because of the setback requirements, then you have no loss or damage that you can claim...)
Are you really willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars filing a lawsuit in land court over this with a lawyer who specializes in such cases over a wire which slightly crosses over your "land" near a utility/roadway ROW? If you lose the case you will have to pay the legal costs of the utility companies and that can be much more than you will spend on your lawyers...
You should have brought up this objection at the time you purchased the property prior to the close of the sale... You bought into it knowing that the wires were there without obtaining any actual proof that no easement existed... Like Harry K. mentioned above you have no reasonable impact or hindrance on your use of the lot... The "preference" to not have wires crossing over your land is something that if you want to realize is something that you will have to pay for... $10,000 for a crew to relocate the poles and wires needed to move them from over your lot to fully exercise what may be non-existant "air rights" (how tall are structures allowed to be on your lot by zoning law) is something which you would need to pay the full cost for...
$10,000 to relocate the pole and wires is a sure thing... Or you could pay that as a retainer for a lawyer to take on your case and see ballooning legal fees and endure a two year wait before your land court case goes to trial...
Remember the title insurance will cover you for actual costs to deal with this issue AFTER THE FACT... Do you really want to be paying commercial interest rates on a loan you took to pay off your legal costs and wait MORE months while you deal with the title insurance claim before you are reimbursed?
Good Luck...
My advice is to just "lump it" and deal with the wires where they are... You could be opening a Pandora's Box where you quickly lose control over what you have put into motion... All because you would rather not have a wire intrude into your yard...
~~ Evan
They may not be interested in screwing the buyer, but in many cases they are working for the SELLER and have interests more closely tied to the SELLER, than the buyer. Principle among those interests is getting paid and that only occurs if the sale is made. So, I would not expect them to be raising legal issues for the buyer. And last time I checked, in most states you have to be licensed as an attorney to give actual legal advice and opinions.
A real estate contract is never writtten in stone. I've made changes to them and so has my attorney. If there is something there you don't like, you change it and send it back. It doesn't get signed until both parties are satisfied.
A good example is the home inspection section. What that says as to the options for the buyer depending on the inspection, is critical. I've made changes to that to protect myself.
I've never seen realtors act that way in my experience. The realtor representing the seller offers them a standard contract, but they or their attorney are free to make any changes they feel appropriate. And as a buyer, the realtor can go crap in their hat. I'm surely not going to leave something in a contract I don't like because the seller's real estate agent says so. Especially in this market. Either negotiate it to something acceptable to me and my lawyer or find another buyer.
Why? Nothing illegal about that.
Yeah, the story has changed a bit hasn't it? On top of the pole being on a legal easement, he also says the wires cross his property near the border. I wonder exactly how far beyond the easement they extend onto his property? Wouldn't surprise me if it's 2 ft. He wants tens of thousands of dollars for whatever the encroachment is. If everyone got that, imagine how much electricity would cost.
Good idea. Start of the process with a letter that is a lie. I'm having less and less empathy for you the more I learn....
Does the utility have a right of way easement for their wires that come to your buildings? Where is this right of way easement recorded and what is the exact language it uses? Where does this public easement for the road begin and end and what does it specifically allow/disallow? Where does the "meets and bounds" survey you bought the land with show this easement? If no "meets and bounds" where is the subdivision plat recorded and what is in the recorded covenants?
The above checks may provide you with an answer to some of your uncertainties.
First, I see you changed your question to say the pole is not on your property. Therefore, I must ask if the lines go over your property. Since it sounds like you have a large piece of rural land, you know the title company is involved, and have been there only a year, the property survey markers may still be in place or you can find them again with the survey that came with your closing papers. Determine if the lines are actually over your property. If the lines are over your property and no easement was in your closing papers or is on your title, you have a suit for trespass and to eject the lines from your property. Had you your own lawyer at closing (which everyone should do even if the custom is to not), they would have either caught this or would continue to represent you now. Since you didn't, contact your realtor (not the seller's realtor) for information on how to proceed.
He has said it is in a remote area of a large acrage, the pole is not even on his property and only the wires cross a small area.
Bottom line.
Harry K
How in the world would a lawyer involved in a routine closing know about overhead utility wires that slightly overhang a property from a pole that is on an easement? The OP himself didn't notice them for 6+ months.
Sure, for additional money. It wasn't the responsibility of the lawyer to go out and do a visual inspection or survey to determine what is encroaching on the property. If the overhead wires position was shown clearly on a survey, then MAYBE you could get the lawyer to own up to it. It could be the title company's headache, if the wires actually do go over the property without an easement. Also possible they've been there for 50 years and then, depending on state law, who knows.....
What makes you think he even has a realtor? And why would you go to a realtor, who isn't licensed to practice law, for legal advice?
We need more information. Will the pole burn (i.e., creosoted timber) or is it metal?
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