Just curious how far your Wi-Fi access point is from your desktop computer

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Thanks for that information as I was under the impression that these things worked fine with 12 volts to 24 volts, where a quick google confirmed "some" work at 12VDC, e.g., this thread from 4 years ago o 12 Volts for ubnt devices...

Where the OP specifically asked about his 3 devices (2 of which I have): o Rocket M5 (they said it works fine on 12VDC) o Bullet M2 (they said it works fine on 12VDC) o Nanostation Loco M5 (they said it works fine on 12VDC)

But they did advise: "Get a passive PIE injector cable & apply battery voltage to the inputs"

>

Likewise, with this guy who asked about using bullets in a moving car: o Bullet M2 (they said it works fine on 12VDC) o Bullet M5 (they said it works fine on 12VDC) Where they suggested for a car's rather noisy automotive system: "Tycon makes a 12v to 18v poe injector that would likely smooth out the bumps and ripples." Where they guys are pretty experienced at that forum, saying: "Most of these radios will actually work OK down to 7 or 8 volts, which you should never see if the power system of the vehicle is good."

One guy suggested these for people using them in vehicles: o 12 Volt to 24 Volt Passive PoE: Tycon Power Systems TP-DCDC-1224 9-36VDC IN 24VDC OUT, 19W DC to DC Conv.

o 12 Volt to 24 Volt Passive PoE (Gigabit): Tycon Power Systems TP-DCDC-1224G 24V Passive PoE Output Gigabit Injector o Dual 5 Volt USB to 24 Volt Passive PoE: Tycon Power Systems TP-DCDC-2USB-24 USB Powered 24V Passive POE Inserter

For the record, for those contemplating vehicle usage, that thread said:

I don't know anything about RVs either, but that 100 amp battery came up a lot on my searches, so if I assume 100 amps, it could last, in and of itself, for four days, but we'd have to cut that down to have a reserve for starting the vehicle.

Anyway, if the guy wants to, he can run off the battery for at least a day, which may be enough for him to do in between charges (dunno, he's already got to run a ton of other electrical stuff in that RV based on the stuff that I already posted in those "RV Electrical Basics" links.

Suffice to say, it's his choice (if he picks the right devices) o Generator o Inverter o Passive POE

Thanks. I always base my belief system on facts. o If the facts change, I modify the belief system Such that it's always not only based on facts, but bolstered by facts.

It's why adults own rational belief systems after all.

It's nice to know the technique we use is similar to yours.

If we want to test out a location for someone, we bring a tripod and hook up a Rocket (usually) and see what we get.

Sometimes we get a wildly asymmetrical signal (upstream versus downstream), which we've not figured out why yet (a lobe perhaps?) since the WISP is symmetric.

Basically, if the signal is good on the ground, we know it's gonna be good on the rooftop or in a tree, but we try to avoid trees if we can since everyone has a rooftop.

There are a few ways of looking at this, where, I'm sure you're aware, the power measurement in the AirOS report changes greatly at times, easily a handful of decibels, sometimes much more.

Also, there are different applications we're talking about, from bridges, to access points, to mountaintop to mountaintop Internet feeds, etc., where each one is different in the setup and requirements, noise, and channels, etc.

In addition, as you're aware, these are reasonably narrow beam devices for the most part, particularly the mountaintop to mountaintop ones, where they're also set up differently in most cases (e.g., non WiFi for example).

In addition, many are nowadays 5GHz which has more non overlapping channels, which, is why, by the way, I have so much 2.4GHz stuff lying around (as we replace 2.4GHz with 5GHz every time we go up on a roof).

While there are lots of variables, your way of looking at it is fine though, where I'm not saying that the lowest power that works in the given application isn't a good idea, as it is.

[Johann Beretta]

I'm not getting into legality. I'm getting into being a good neighbor and being polite. Do you get this?

Where I'm at there are 1,300 acre ranches. That doesn't mean that wifi is going to hit the property-line and stop. Hence my reiterations..

You get someone who lives in Kansas and 40 acres to a transmitter means nothing. That signal may travel for dozens of miles. As I have mentioned before I can pick up the San Onofre Vistior's Wifi signal over

60 miles away. That means I could, if I so chose, attempt to hack a network that is a 2 hour drive away. That's crazy.

The more powerful your transmitter the greater the audience of people who may decide to attempt to penetrate your network. If I can pick up your SSID, that's all I need to being a WPA2 attack.. $50 in Amazon cloud computing time and now I get to use your internet to write death threats to the President. Guess who's door the Secret Service is going to kick in?

I don't care if you think that's an unlikely scenario. Security must be practiced proactively. Reactive security isn't security, it's damage control. There's no reason to expose one's self to threats that one does not need to.

[Johann Beretta]

24378D197B73AC0E7FC569AD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 10/22/19 10:43 PM, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote: <snip>

<snip>

Continue on with your decibels and painting wifi (or throwing it). I've tired of your inability to want to learn how to be a good spectrum steward and use the proper terminology for the industry. Apparently it's your belief that unlicensed spectrum means you have the moral right to do whatever the f*ck you want with it.

Do the rest of us a favor and switch to the AC line of gear and get familiar with the "automatic power control" button in the UI. This lets the radio decide how much power it needs (and it will adjust on the fly) to maintain a link.

It's clear you're a amateur wireless operator who thinks he's risen to the level of a expert. Unfortunately your posts disprove that. (And for anyone else reading, I'm not claiming I'm an expert, but I sure-as-hell can recognize an amateur when I see one)

You're not doing the newbies any favors. You're starting them off turned in the wrong direction. It's because of clueless asshats that the rest of us are having to move to 24 GHz where you CANNOT interfere with our transmissions no matter how hard you try, through malice or INCOMPETENCE.

Keep "throwing your wifi", I'm throwing you in my kill-file.

[trader_4]

Post the data sheet for the equipment, instead of your home pictures and we will be able to tell if it works or not. You said one piece of eqpt was a Nanobeam M2. The datasheet for that clearly states that it's a point-to-point Ethernet bridge, you need two. And in between they communicate via an apparently proprietary method, there is not one word in the data sheet about ANY of it being 802.11a,b,g,n, ac compatible. In other words, you have a wireless Ethernet bridge, between two fixed points, not a WiFi access point. You can use that bridge to then install an actual WiFi access point at a remote location. But you haven't really extended the WiFi at the first location to the second, there is no 802.11 WiFi in between that a phone, PC, etc could connect to. You then have two separate, different WiFi access points, connected by a wireless Ethernet bridge. Capiche?

Not with the Powerbeam M2, it doesn't do what you claim. You sure can't take just one, connect it to any router and have a long range access point. You won't have an access point at all, because it's an Ethernet bridge product, not an 802.11 access point.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Trader,

I told good people I'd ignore trolls, so I'll be uncharacteristically brief: o Read Johann's prior explanation where he said it works just fine (albeit it's clearly powerful so the Tx should be dialed down)

If you don't understand Johann's explanation; ask HIM to clarify it. o If you didn't understand Johann, there are likely others similarly confused.

Good luck.

[Jeff Liebermann]

I know of several 24 GHz links that is getting trashed by cellular backhauls using the same unlicensed technology. The problem is that getting a PtP link licensed and properly coordinated in a dense urban or mountain top environment is becoming increasingly difficult and lengthy. Service providers want something they can install quickly and 24 GHz currently meets most of the requirements. The interference is coming from other 24 GHz radios that are along the line of sight, or co-located on adjacent rooftops, adjacent towers, or mountain top.

For short hops, the big move is to V-Band, 60 GHz, WiGig, or 802.11ad or maybe the new and improved 802.11ay. What makes these work is atmospheric oxygen absorption. At short ranges, the signal is there. However, put enough distance and air in between endpoints, and the signal drops quite rapidly. 802.11ay will allegedly work to 300-500 meters range under ideal conditions (no rain, no snow, no fog, etc):

"802.11ay WiFi @ 60 GHz (Millimeter frequencies)"

"60GHz Wireless:

MikroTik RBLHGG-60adkit (60 GHz 802.11ad):

MikroTik RBSXTsq-60ad (60 GHz 802.11ad):

MikroTik antennas and range selection:

Ubiquiti has it's equivalent AirFiber 60 product, but it's only available to early access program customers in the US. Some clues in the FCC ID data:

Ignore the Cyrillic and click on the photo for a photo slide show:

[trader_4]

like I said, I call BS. Do you deny that the NanoBeam M2 data sheet describes it as a point-to-point ETHERNET bridge and there is not one word about any of it being 802.11a,b,g,n, ac compatible? They even talk about that eqpt using TDMA. 802.11x is not TDMA.

Since you can't seem to find a data sheet, here's one:

Not a word about 802.11x. It's a point to point wireless Ethernet bridge and the application diagrams show it used as exactly that. It's not an access point, it's not WiFi 802.11x. It uses some TDMA scheme between the two points.

Here is another example:

It's again a point-to-point Ethernet bridge. You take two of their gear, one on each end to extend an Ethernet LAN to another location. Any WiFi is at the two ends, if desired, is provided by typical and additional access points, not the bridge.

And as someone else said, it would be pretty stupid to use that if all you want is to extend WiFi to your pool.

[trader_4]

You really are quite pathetic and a liar. You claim that you want to have an adult discussion and for people to learn. Yet you post pictures of some crap sitting on a bench, no product identifiers, no data sheets, no specs I ask you to post a link to the specific eqpt so we can see if it really does WiFi, 802.11, no response to about four requests now. And when you do call out a piece of eqpt, eg Naonbeam M2 and we go there, pull up the data sheets, we find that it;s not at all what you claim it to be. It's an ETHERNET LAN WIRELESS POINT-TO_POINT leak. It's not an access point, it's not an 802.11a,b,g,n,ac ANYTHING. It does not say it supports any of those, it says quite the opposite, that it uses TDMA for a point-to-point Ethernet bridge. It's a freaking BRIDGE, not an 802.11 access point. You can't connect to it with 802.11 wifi, eg a smartphone, a laptop, etc.

And when I point that out, your "adult" response is to tell me I should go somewhere else to ask questions? Sure, so that you're BS isn't exposed here, where everyone can see it.

ROFL

So much for "adult" discussion.

You go ahead, post the dats sheet links for the specific pieces of gear that you claim are an 802.11a,b,g,n, ac range extender. List all that is required from one end to the other. And I'll bet it's not a range extender, it's two different access points, at a distance, connected by a wireless Ethernet bridge and there is no 802.11 coverage in between the two points.

Challenge issued.

[Johann Beretta]

So far most of the gear I have come across is rated at 2 miles or less or in a single instance I'm aware of, Ubiquiti's AirFiber 24 can do about 5 miles. I'm not saying you're incorrect, just that I suspect interference will be the exception and not the rule. A cell tower that's trashing someone's link is also probably having it's own link trashed, or at least degraded.

For very short hops. My Mikrotik 60G is rated at a mile. I haven't deployed it yet, but from what i understand if one wants it to punch through rain, then one probably should not exceed 3/4 mile and 1/2 mile might be more realistic during heavy downpours.

<snip>

Everything I'm hearing about 24 GHz has been positive. I don't doubt that there will be some cases of interference, but with WISP gear (I don't know what the cell sites are using) having a 2-5 mile range is a hell of a lot better than the nearly unlimited range of 5 GHz.

[Xeno]

Before you go running off about how long a battery with X amp hours will last, you need to be appraised of the facts of life with regard to batteries.

The golden rules of deep cycle batteries are:

Don't flatten your battery.

Don't regularly take out more than 40%.

In case you do flatten or exceed 40% discharge of a deep cycle battery, don't leave it in a discharged state, charge it back up ASAP.

Use the right size and type of charger

Know the settings on the charger and have it on the right setting

Keep the battery on a trickle-charge when not in use

If not maintained on a trickle charger, top up the battery charge monthly.

Failure to follow the above rules will dramatically shorten the life of your battery.

And one more point, a standard lead acid battery, as used in vehicles, etc, should not be regularly discharged more than 20%.

<snip useless diatribe>

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Hi Xeno,

Almost everyone who has posted, is very well known to all of us, Xeno.

Thanks for that advice, as you've always been very helpful, and observant of details that many have missed (e.g., the specific tire wear peculiar to mountain roads due to suspension forces related to positive camber which drastically affects the outside edge of front tires).

That's a factual detail that has stood the test of time, which NOBODY else noticed, nor could they explain, until you explained it to the rest of us.

Hence, I have reason to admire your factual acuity, where, in this case, I also respect your judgment, and, in fact, the record shows, we were "almost" as conservative as you suggest, where we assumed 25% of the rated capacity in our calculations (instead of 20%).

It need not be too often stated that most of us (all?) on Usenet are old men, with many decades of experience with automotive batteries (in all sorts of climes around the world).

Thanks for the explanation. o We already calculated at 25% but we can easily adjust down to 20%.

At 20% rated RV battery capacity, the setup will last about 20 hours.

Hi Xeno,

I consider that comment pejorative; and I tell you so. o Rightly or wrongly, there was a reason for what you called a "diatribe".

You may need to understand that I take on the tone of the poster. o It's a tactical technique called "mirroring" implied intent.

The intent is to funnel the poster into being an adult.

It works well with adults. o There is really no technique that works well with trolls

Since, clearly, they posted to this thread many times o Even as they were never once fed.

[Elder Jones]

[Trumpster]

LOL

[trader_4]

Anyone who looks at all my posts in this newsgroup can tell I'm not a troll. If anyone is a troll, it's you, who shows up here posting some long, drawn out BS, where you pretend to want to learn, then reject anything that shows you're wrong. And then you play the victim role, pretending that you want to have an adult conversation, yet instead of producing data sheets, you just drone one. You claim I'm a troll, Cindy is a troll, you went at it with Ed. They are well respected here. And now you're doing it again, you;ll be launching attacks and posting pictures of stuff, instead of DATA SHEETS. Where are the DATA SHEETS?

That's a lie. I haven't removed experts. I've just replied to the posts in this thread here at AHR. Sure, I trim them so that only the relevant parts are there, where I ask a question, point out something. I'm not going to re-post 6 pages of BS like you do and drone on about "adults" when there is one point to be made.

This from the guy who claimed that Ethernet and WiFi are the same thing. And the guy who refuses to post a damn data sheet for the pieces of eqpt he keeps yapping about. I had to explain to YOU that isn't so. And further, I had to explain to you that from what I have seen here, what you are claiming to be WiFi 802.11x isn't that at all. For example the Nanobeam M product. PULL UP THE DATASHEET. It is described not as a WiFi range extender, but as a POINT-TO-POINT ETHERNET BRIDGE. There is not one word about it conforming to any 802.11 standard, because from all that I see, it does not.

I didn't remove anyone, stupid. I just replied to your posts here on AHR using Google Groups.

Heh, dummy, I had to explain to YOU that contrary to your false claims, Ethernet and WiFi are not the same thing. Rbowman agreed. I cited the IEEE specs for both for you. And the difference matters. If you walk into BestBuy and ask to see the WiFi add-in cards they are going to show you those, not Ethernet add-in cards.

Again with the family photos instead of a DATA SHEET. So, here's the datasheet for the PCE-M2-400 and what does it say? Does it say that it's

802.11x compatible? Does it even mention 802.11x? No. In fact it says exactly what I'm telling you:

"Unlike standard Wi-Fi protocol,Ubiquiti’s Time Division MultipleAccess (TDMA) airMAX protocolallows each client to send and receive data using pre-designated timeslots scheduled by an intelligent APcontroller.This time slot method'

It's described as a POINT-TO-POINT ETHERNET BRIDGE and the diagrams show it being used exactly as that. There is no 802.11X WiFi coming out of this device, there is no 802.11 WiFi access for your smartphone, tablet, etc IN BETWEEN THE TWO POWERBEAM PRODUCTS. Look at the application examples and they show it used that way and only that way. One PB on each end to establish a wireless link between the two of them.

Very simple question, do you agree or disagree with the above, that it's a TDMA, not WiFi 802.11x protocol between two PB's used as a bridge? And if you disagree, how is it that a product that clearly says it's ETHERNET on one side and TDMA (not 802.11x anything) on the other side, give you an 802.11x WiFi access point?

Rest of family photos that add nothing deleted.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

UPDATE:

While these devices all come with debugging tools, it's useful to let users know that on Android (but unfortunately not on iOS), there are modern powerful debugging tools that help you debug your WiFi signals:

For example, I just snapped these screenshots of one app in use today:

If you know of any iOS apps that do the same, please let me know: <

>

As it would be nice on the larger iPad screen if such iOS tools existed.

These Android free ad-free tools are useful to test temporary bridges:

With and without the horns attached to the high-gain antennas:

Where it's your choice whether to use the horn alone or in combination with the antenna, which turns the omni horn into a narrow beam WiFi extender:

Which, depending on various factors could be miles of point-to-point range:

(where, as Johann Beretta noted, that screenshot is with AirMax enabled)

Modern WiFi debugging apps are useful when you set up APs at home, where, for example, you can instantly convert a dumb switch to a WiFi AP & then test with your Android phone how strong the signal is around the house:

Or, if you have a spare old router, debug the extension of its range:

Given that laptops are notoriously anemic when it comes to WiFi range.

You can also debug when you add bridge a desktop without WiFi to WiFi

And you can see the difference in range on your phone, when you have both:

Yes, there are already UNIX-like tools inherent in the router software:

But they only work for an individual transceiver (radio & router):

And, they're different software for each transceiver brand:

Where, unfortunately, iOS just doesn't have this modern app functionality:

In summary, when you set up these devices, your Android phone instantly becomes a very useful modern WiFi testing tool, where if you know of any iOS app functionality on the Apple App Store that does the same thing, please let me know as I've looked in vain for years on end for such modern app functionality to exist on my much larger screen iPads.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'm up to 11 now. My goal is to point out what an arrogant, snobby, prick you are. Just the fact that you took the time to enumerate all of this shows what a simple minded senile old man you really are.

Your superiority attitude makes your life more difficult because you just grate on people. You talk about adult posts but it is YOU that is the most childish person here. I'm not afraid to call you out on it but you are afraid to look in a mirror and see yourself for what you are.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Hi Mike,

I understand that every situation is different, and, one of my key points on versatility ot good tools is that even your situation is different today than it might be five years from now (where you can repurpose stuff you bought if it's versatile).

Understood. The beauty of the switch (or router) being separate from the access point is that you can place the access point anywhere you like.

One thing you might consider, Mike, which works GREAT for me because I don't want to 'climb through walls' is you can position the access point OUTSIDE the house pointing back at the house!

This idea works GREAT for me!

I'm nestled into the side of a hill, which helps, as I can see the roof from my back yard, where every instance is different topographically, but even on a flat yard, you can still paint the entire house with WiFi simply by snaking a cat5 cable to the clotheslines pole, so to speak.

The geometry works out such that one side of the house only has a wall and windows to penetrate (out here, windows are solar reflective/absorptive by code).

Understood, Mike, where it's refreshing to converse with someone like you who has real needs and thinks of real solutions instead of having to deal with the too many trolls who outnumber us 20:1 who simply post on Usenet for their own amusement.

Given your needs are simply that the antenna needs to be in a different location from the router/switch, I'm curious of you've looked at those routers where the antenna itself is easily detachable and relocatable?

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

This is where Usenet potluck sharing shows its value:

So I looked up those suggestions for Mike, where the first Amazon hit was:

$61.84 & FREE Shipping o Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X Advanced Gigabit Ethernet Routers ER-X 256MB Storage 5 Gigabit RJ45 ports

Where it was interesting, in the picture to see not only a POE in (which I have on my switches also), but also a POE out (which is useful as I feel good tools should be versatile to fit many situations over the years) o Marketing: o Specs:

Here's a review of the EdgeRouter X (aka ER-X):

The first hit of the ER-X-SFP was this: $92.99 & FREE Shipping o Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP - Router - Desktop - Black (ER-X-SFP)

This is what I love about the idea of coupling a fast but inexpensive switch to a separate access point, such as is shown in this picture:

Note: You can put that NanoBeam NBE-M5-16 either on the POE out port, or, you could put it on ANY port if electricity is near the location of the transceiver, where the advantage of the POE out port is that you the transceiver can be placed in a location that doesn't have mains power.

The one nice thing about all this Ubiquiti equipment is that they're like hammers and screwdrivers, in that whenever you have a need, they seem to be versatile enough to do the job well.

I don't have the speed needs that Mike has, but I love plugging "stuff" into a switch where, for example, this is a radio I'm erecting outside that is connected to a switch inside, which will paint the house from the sides:

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

UPDATE:

Given this was my WiFi & cellular test situation at various locations: o abdelrahman.wifianalyzerpro

o uk.co.soapysoft.wifianalyzer o com.keuwl.wifi o make.more.r2d2.cellular_z etc. I ended up purchasing this setup to test out, which just arrived: o