I agree that a normal SOHO router works just fine for many people o I literally have plenty of normal SOHO routers myself
But I _also_ have far better equipment (in terms of power & distances):
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My key point being to educate folks here that huge DISTANCES are possible o At about the same cost that they're paying now
For example, as you're likely aware, you'd be hard pressed to get even 20 "real" decibels out of a typical SOHO router, right?
Well, this desktop I'm on at this very moment has a router attached to its RJ45 port with 23 decibels of transmit power, which itself is attached to a cheap antenna of, oh, I think this one is about another 18 decibels.
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Bearing in mind not only that decibels add up, but every 3 decibels is twice the power, which allows any desktop to connect to a suitable access point which can be miles away (or only hundreds of feet through a building or other penetratable structure).
All for the same cost as what everyone is paying now.
All they need is the technical knowhow in this thread (and a bit more room on their shelves) where, armed with this knowledge (which is what I'm all about, Frank ... dissemination of knowledge) ... they too can transmit/receive strong signal for MILES to/from their desktop, instead of mere feet.
If you already get good signal to and from anywhere you need to, with a typical cable modem and SOHO router, then you have absolutely no need for the technical acumen and powerful tools that this thread espouses.
Out here, where I live, above the Silicon Valley, just to give you an idea of the distances involved, we have 40 acre zoning, which means you can't even build a second house if you have only 79 acres of land.
Yet, we can 'see' millions of access points (literally and figuratively), which means, if we wanted to, we can have a friend many miles away connect his desktop to our cable modem (if we had a cable modem - which is essentially what our "radio" is so it's the same thing in effect).
More to the point, if I want to beam my signal from my desktop to the pool, which is only a few hundred feet away, I can, and if I want to reach the driveway gate, which is also hundreds of feet from the house, I can.
Likewise with the barn, shed, shop, and parking area. o All I need is an RJ45 port (on any router, modem, laptop, or desktop).
What's even better, is our houses are rather large, where we can easily beam to all corners of the house from OUTSIDE the house.
All we do is connect a Cat5 cable to what you'd call a "cable modem", and then we can beam the cable modem Internet signal back into the house.
Since the signal is penetrating a structure, it won't go for miles in that case, but it's certainly powerful enough to penetrate to all floors and all corners of the house.
I can't be the only person on this newsgroup who would like that kind of power at about the same costs as what people are paying today for "repeaters" and "wifi dongles" for their laptops and desktops.
In summary, you don't need anything whatsoever by way of power & distance o And that's fine - as it's a very useful datapoint which we appreciate
Hopefully other people enjoy having this kind of power at the same cost.
Thanks for pointing that out, where almost all my equipment is free, since people replace their routers and antennas all the time, with new ones. as specs changed from g, to n, to ac, etc. over the years.
A quick search shows the 23dBm routerboard FCC-ID is TV7R52N, dated to 2009
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So it's likely nearly ten years old, which was before ac routers existed. o Where everyone should be familiar that WiFi standards changed over time.
I think I already posted the $90 ac equivalent on Amazon, where I'm sure far better prices can be found if we look a little further on the net.
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Notice that, for about the same cost as any typical 15-20 decibel router, you get a 5GHz 802.11ac router with a 720MHz CPU with 128MB DDR2 onboard memory & Ethernet One Gigabit port with Auto-MDI/X Wireless QCA9882, 2x MMCX connectors, Dual chains, which works anywhere in the world (Mikrotik is renown for allowing settings for ANY country, where last I checked on mine, there were literally about 200 different country choices in the firmware).
The good news from your post is that I am aware you are rather well educated in Physics, so I'm sure you're appreciative of the phenomenal power of decibels, where, a quick look just now on one of my routers shows the EIRP to be around 27 dBM plus around 10 dBi, which gives me roughly about 37 decibels of transmit power.
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Most people might not need such huge power (which equates to signal strength at distance, of course), where the key educational technical point is that this inexpensive equipment costs just about as much as the puny SOHO routers people put in their homes - where the size of this 23dBm router connected directly to my desktop computer is actually much SMALLER than a typical SOHO router (although we need to attach antennas to it, but they can be of almost any size depending on your distance needs).
In summary, for about the same cost and size of a typical SOHO router, you can get, literally, miles of distance between your modem or computer, and the access point.
You just need to know first, that it can be done rather easily, and, o Then you simply need to know what equipment to purchase on Amazon
Thanks for that purposefully helpful information, as Usenet is a potluck where each of us brings what value we can share with the other members.
While I've repeatedly stated the cost of this powerful equipment is essentially about what people already pay for their SOHO routers and their repeaters, what I didn't say is that the equipment isn't generally to be found in your basic "box" stores (e.g., Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Costco, Home Depot, Frys, etc.).
Regarding the brands you seek, in my experience, two brands stand out: o Ubiquiti
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* Mikrotik
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While they're large corporations that produce many devices, in general o Ubiquiti supplies low-cost well-made stand-alone complete units o Mikrotik supplies even-lower-cost boards where you assemble it yourself
That's why you'll see my Ubiquiti equipment looks like this:
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While my Mikrotick equipment looks like this:
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The good news is that the techniques and equipment described in this thread, work with ANY typical Ethernet connection, such as the ports in the back of your DSL or cable modem, and your home router, and your laptop or desktop PC Ethernet port.
That's the beauty of knowing how to use the tools described here o They work in all common situations (you just need more shelf space)
I agree with you that the use of "antenna" to mean "transceiver + antenna" is a colloquial use of the word, as is the use of "radio" or "router", and even as is the use of "modem", where all are, for our purposes, essentially the same thing.
We have a signal and a means to transmit that signal for miles (LOS). o At just about the same cost as everyone here spends for their home router
But where the home router would be hard pressed to output 20 decibels o And where we can easily transmit up to the legal limit around the world
Where every 3 decibels is twice the power - so that's a LOT of power o Which is why any desktop can connect to an AP which is miles away
You just have to know what we've described in this thread to do it.
I am always happy to share knowledge, as I feel Usenet is a potluck where adults share among themselves items of useful value to everyone.
Just because some new hire at Intel got it wrong, does not make it so. Notice that even there, aside from the title, they don't call Wi-Fi Ethernet. The relevant LAN standards are controlled by the IEEE under 802.X:
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802.3 is Ethernet
802.11 is WiFi
The fact that they share some things in common does not make them the same thing or one part of the other. For example, also under 802 is 802.15, which covers Bluetooth. Would anyone say that Bluetooth is Ethernet? 802.3, Ethernet, is a wired standard. 802.11 is WiFi, one set of wireless standards. 802.15 is Bluetooth, a different set of wireless standards. What they share is that they are all local area network standards.
IEEE 802.3 (Ethernet) and IEEE 802.11 (WiFi) layer 2 specifications. The OSI 7 layer model and RFC1122 5 layer model get cloudy when combined.
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The IEEE 802 family follows the OSI model and is concerned with how the physical layer is used to transmit data. 1122 is rooted in DARPA and like most government projects it assumed there was some sort of magic that was going to shuffle bits around. In any case the TCP/IP is way up the tree.
Hi Cindy & Trader, Take a look at this photo of an outside antenna I just snapped for you:
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Notice things about this setup (which costs what your stuff does): o One end is typical Ethernet (which plugs into anything you've got) o The other end is typical Wi-Fi (which works with whatever you have)
The fact is that this is ten to one hundred times the power you have o At about the same price
You just have to understand this fact o And then you have to have a need for that kind of power
What I find rather illuminating, given Usenet is a public potluck, is when people like trader repeatedly show up to the public potluck, but they always seem to bring absolutely nothing of any value to the table, while at the same time, those people like trader brazenly deny that any of the food that anyone else brought "tastes good" to him.
Meanwhile, the fact is that one end of these devices plugs into anything that each of us has at home that naturally takes the RJ45 plug (whether or not trader accepts that it's called "Ethernet" colloquially when we do that).
Despite trader always trying to dispute even the most obvious of facts, another basic fact is that the other end of these devices, is an antenna, which has a motherboard attached which transmits at WiFi frequencies and protocols (aka 802.11 a, b, g, n, ac, etc.).
FACT: o These devices can cost about as much as your current equipment costs o These devices are easily more than ten times more powerful though o In general, these devices are a bit larger (not in all cases though)
While there are people like Cindy who don't need this power, there may well be others who can make use of these tools to gain this 10X power differential, at no greater cost than what they paid for the 10X weaker SOHO routers they use today.
Additionally, while there are people like Gavin and Frank who use Cat5 cable to connect to devices, there are cases where that's infeasible, which is when beaming your own signal to the far corners of your property from your "modem" back into the house or to the pool or to the driveway entrance gate, is feasible for some people.
Heck, some of your kids have tree forts, don't they? (I've always lived in rural areas where tree forts were the norm for the neighborhood boys.) Wouldn't it be nice to paint your kids' tree forts with Internet?
Here's a picture of just one of my antennas, this one being only about 15d Bi or so, with a Ubiquiti Bullet of about 27dBm or so attached to it.
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Since I'm trying to help others pick their equipment, here are current prices, where you can see this costs as little as your typical router:
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Given 600 milliwatts is about 27 decibels, notice you already have about ten times the power of your typical home router BEFORE you add an antenna!
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You can get ten times ten times the power of your router o When you add an inexpensive antenna to the radio
Bear in mind what I've been trying to get people like trader to understand o One end is Ethernet (which connects to anything you've got that's RJ45) o The other end is WiFi (which connects to anything you've got that's WiFi)
Notice you easily get from 10 times to 100 times (or more) the power... o All at "about the same price" as you're paying now for your equipment
If you know how and if you know what to buy o You can connect almost anything you have now in your home o To almost anywhere else (if you can "see" the other side) o Or, if it's within a few hundred feet, even if you can't see it
This is basic computer, Ethernet, & WiFi stuff.
The datasheet on that $80 bullet transceiver (aka "radio") shows the point that one end is a connection to any desired antenna, while the other end is the same typical Ethernet connection that we all have all over the place: o Atheros MIPS 24KC, 400MHz, 32MB SDRAM, 8MB Flash o Networking Interface 1 X 10/100 BASE-TX (Cat. 5, RJ-45) Ethernet o 2.4GHz, 5GHz, 802.11 b,g,n
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Despite the fact there are people like trader who don't comprehend even this simple Ethernet & WiFi stuff, the intelligent reader will instantly notice that you can plug one end into your "modem" or into your "router", which itself can be, they say, up to 100 meters away without a repeater:
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But where, in practice, you generally mount that antenna outside much closer than that because it beams the WiFi signal for miles anyway.
In summary: o If you need to connectg to devices which can be miles away o At about the same price that you pay now for your home equipment o You can connect to those far away devices if you know how to do it
That's my contribution of value to this particular Usenet potluck thread.
Wireless Ethernet: 820.11a To 820.11g The most common forms of wireless networking are built around various versions of the IEEE 802.11 wireless Ethernet standards, including IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11a, IEEE 802.11g, and IEEE 802.11n.
Sure, it even says Ethernet on one end, 802.11 Wi-Fi on the other. That doesn't make Ethernet and WiFi the same thing. Following that logic, then a 2" PVC pipe is the same thing as a 1.5" steel pipe because there is a device that allows you to connect the two.
And again, I only entered this thread on two points. One was you claimed that using two of those things, (I guess), one at your house, one at some friends house thousands of feet away, somehow equates to everyone having a Wi-Fi available at their house. I think to a reasonable person, having Wi-Fi available at your home means it's either available through a simple WiFi router connected to cable, DSL, etc. Or it's available from a local WiFi hotspot that reaches your house. Not that you need a friend somewhere and a point-to-point relay in between.
The other was you claimed that WiFi is Ethernet and it's not.
See the above.
See the above.
See the above. You're wrong. Ethernet is not WiFi, they are different standards with very different physical layers and lower OSI layer protocols.
Fact, that doesn't have anything to do with what I posted.
I think much of the confusion stems from the fact that we're discussing two somewhat similar ways to connect an "antenna" to the back of a desktop.
To further clarify what others have been also clarifying, I snapped this picture, just now, which shows two ways to connect an 'antenna' to the back of a typical desktop computer (aka "Ethernet" & "Wi-Fi"):
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In the end analysis, while the costs are the same, the POWER is fantastically different, and yet, the result is your typical "Wi-Fi", which you can verify, for example, using your phone with freely available apps:
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Notice that this desktop has both types of connections: a. There's a typically puny Wi-Fi "device" attached to this desktop b. There's a powerful Wi-Fi "device" attached to the desktop RJ45 port
Both cost about the same in terms of both price & setup (which is minimal). o But only one will be found at a typical consumer-focused box store.
One will get you distances of roughly a few hundred feed (or so). o While the other will garner distances easily of a few miles (or so).
Just to be clear for those who simply want us to explain tools more simply o For the price of what people already seem to pay for their home stuff o They can buy "this stuff" which easily connects to "your stuff"
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Where "your stuff" includes anything you have in the house that o Connects to what we colloquially refer to as "Ethernet", or, o Connects to what we colloquially refer to as "Wi-Fi".
Where the main drawback of "this stuff" is o It's generally a bit larger (but not always) so you need shelf space o You definitely won't ever find "this stuff" in the normal box stores
So you simply have to KNOW that this kind of power is available to you. o And then you simply need advice on "what stuff" to purchase online
Where, the elegant beauty of "this stuff" is the sheer simplicity of it all o One end of "this stuff" is what we colloquially refer to as "Ethernet" o The other end is what we colloquially refer to as "Wi-Fi".
For example, here is a picture of "this stuff" showing both hose ends:
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And here is another picture of "this stuff" showing both those ends:
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Where this pictures shows some of the many shapes & sizes of "this stuff"
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Notice the key colloquial takeaway to explain the immense power here: o One end attaches to ANYTHING you have that you'd call "Ethernet" o The other end attaches to ANYTHING else that you'd call "Wi-Fi"
Given the choice between Tom's Hardware and the IEEE that controls the actual 802 LAN standards, I know which one I'd go with. You're free to do as you please. Even if you walk into a BestBuy and ask for an Ethernet card, do you think you;re going to get a WiFi card? And if you walk in and ask for a WiFi card, I suppose you think they will direct you to the gigabit Ethernet cards? Funny how laptops and such have typically had both Ethernet and WiFi available, one through a wired connector, the other through the air, eh?
You're the only one confused. Ethernet <> WiFi The IEEE that controls the standards says so.
And you started this BS, out of the blue, claiming that Ethernet and WiFi are the same thing, while taking a shot at me, claiming I didn't know what I was talking about. Up until that time, all I had to say in this thread was that I don't think having access to WiFI in one's home includes having to use a friend;s house, if you happen to have one and special hardware to create a link. That was in response to your reply to Cindy claiming *everyone* has access to WiFi, which obviously isn't true, even using your method. Not everyone has a 'friend" who has internet access, who's in a prescribed limited distance, and who's willing to share his service with you, put up with your hardware, etc.
Why do you insist on proving you don't belong on this type of news group?
As usual, you contributed nothing of any value to this Usenet potluck (where the last time you did that, it went sort of like this):
Q: How do you fix a tire at home that I'm having issues trying to fix? A: Duh. You always simply pay someone else to fix everything for you.
Bearing in mind, I don't bullshit, you know this to be a fact: o Did you ever have a batch of tires that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
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Where you said, and I repeat, in full, verbatim: "Silly me, I just pay $15 a tire to get them mounted and dynamically balanced. No fuss, no muss..."
Reparing, mounting, and balancing your own tires at home, Trader o Is something that I do all the time - and I love fixing stuff like that.
Yet, the fact is - you despise fixing stuff - and that's OK. o What's not OK are incessantly worthless responses on this fixit group
Notice the dynamic that you always seem to prove, Trader:
Someone asks a technical repair question which others help answer
Yet you tell them they have to pay someone else to fix it for them
Why are you even on a fixit newsgroup, Trader ... o ... if you can't fix anything?
I consider it a basic American right to be able to fix my own stuff. o While all you do is waste everyone's time, Trader - saying not to.
I didn't challenge you then when you wasted everyone's time, Trader, but all you _ever_ do, is waste everyone's time on this newsgroup. o You don't fix anything o You can't fix anything
But apparently, you NEED someone to challenge you on wasting our time o Because if I don't challenge you - you continue to waste our time
Let's face the facts Trader... o You're better off NOT responding to _any_ thread I proffer
You have absolutely nothing of value to add to ANY technical topic. o And yet, you _insist_ on proving that - time and again.
Stop it. o Please.
Stop wasting our time with your childish games you love to play. o If you can't add any technical value to this thread - then don't post.
To help those who _can_ comprehend what I'm suggesting in this thread o Here is a photo I just took showing the "typical" desktop connections
Heh, asshole, your off topic post isn't even about home repair. And let;s review. You replied to Cindy that everyone has WiFi available at home and made the stupid assertion that's true because some lucky few that don't have WiFi available directly can take what amounts to a repeater and use internet at a friends house some distance away. Did I say that was stupid? No, but it sure is. I just pointed out that most people would not consider what you described to mean that everyone has access to WiFi at their home.
And then you took a cheap shot at me and somehow managed to include that I don't know what I'm talking about because Ethernet is WiFi. In fact, up until you made that post, I hadn't said a damn thing about the two. But since you did and claimed that I'm somehow the ignorant one here, I responded by pointing out that Ethernet and WiFi are not the same thing, stupid.
The IEEE says so in the definitions of LANS, 802.3 is Ethernet,
802.11 is WiFi. I don't expect you're capable of understanding that. So, try this. If you walk into BestBuy and ask for an Ethernet card, where are they going to send you? To the wired Ethernet cards. If you say you want a WiFi card, they will send you to where the WiFi cards are. Or just google for Ethernet card and see what comes up. Ethernet you;ll find 10/100/gigabit. WiFi you'll find 802.11 cards. They are not the same, the physical and lower OSI layers are totally different.
Heh, stupid liar. I've helped countless people here with home repair questions. It's quite amazing you want to now try to divert to changing tires at home, because everyone else here told you the same thing I did, that it;s one of the "repairs" that make no sense doing yourself, when you can get it done for $15 and that includes dynamic balancing, which you can't do at home, stupid.
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