installing 15 amp cabinet lights into a 20 amp circuit

I think you have valid points especially about running it inside the wall. On the other hand, some manufacturer made this thing, presumably it's listed, which is why I asked what the install instructions and pics show. It has a flexible cord that's supposed to be wired to something. How in the hell are you supposed to be able to use it?

He could put a plug on the end of it and plug it in, like Micky suggested.

One key to avoiding this is to try to match what you're buying with what you have to work with.

I suppose if there was a surface mounted box, you could connect it directly there

And what happens when some numbnutz loads a light fixture up with a couple of these cuz they're too cheap to install proper outlets?

The same thing that happens when people put in bulbs that exceed the fixture rating, use an extension cord that too small for the loads, etc. None of those are prevented by whether a breaker is 15A or 20A either.

How come the government doesn't protect me from that?

Hire an electrician.

The fire fighter's union is creating jobs? ;-)

Could be brown, orange, red, blue, black, yellow, etc. Just not white or green.

Could be brown, orange, red, blue, black, yellow, etc. Just not white or green.

Green, Green with yellow tracer, bare.

I haven't followed this conversation, but why are you using 12 gauge wire? Your LED cabinet lights are most likely under 20 watts or so. Even a 14 gauge wire can handle 1800 watts. That's a lot of LED lights.

It sounds like you're wanting to tap power from an existing outlet. Correct? How many wires enter that box now? How deep is the box? If the box is at least 2.5" deep and you only have one cable coming in, you're probably safe to extend the circuit to your cabinet lights. If you have multiple cables and/or the box is shallow, you could exceed the capacity of the box.

What kind of connector/fitting is on the undercabinet light? Is it a standard 3/4" hole with bare wires for hard wiring inside? Or does it come with a household cord and plug?

I would use 14 gauge romex cable (rated for, and easier to fish inside walls). If you have room in the source box, it would be better to join the cables in the box, with short wires to feed the existing outlet. If space is limited, you could use the terminals on the outlet to "feed through" the outlet.

Fish the cable through the wall up to your lights. If the fixture is designed for hard wiring, use a standard cable clamp to secure the cable to the fixture. Then use wire nuts to make the connections inside the fixture.

If the fixture is designed with a standard cord and plug, you could cut off the existing plug and splice it to the Romex (OUTSIDE the wall, don't bury the splice in the wall). I would slip heat shrink tubing over the cable, then more heat shrink tubing over the loose wires. Use crimp connectors to join the wires, then slip the tubing over the connectors/wires and shrink. Then repeat with the outer heat shrink tubing. Make sure to secure the cables with clamps (NOT STAPLES) so they won't get pulled.

Obviously, turn off the power before doing any of this!

Done right, this is a simple and secure installation. Done wrong you can electrocute yourself or someone you love and/or cause a fire that will burn your house down.

Anthony Watson

Obviously.

but why are you using 12 gauge

So far, you're the only one here who thinks it's simple, with no major code problems.

Yep, I only have partial information to go on.

It is not a complicated circuit, but yes there are code issues to consider.

1. It is standard practice in remodel work to extend a circuit for a new outlet or fixture. The biggest issue I can think of would be box fill requirements in the source box. I did mention the number of cables and size of the box as a factor in my initial reply.
2. Wire gauge. I DID ask the OP "why" they were using 12 gauge wire. Obviously, if the circuit is protected by a 20 amp breaker you would need to use 12 gauge wire on that circuit (14 gauge wire could overheat before the 20A breaker would trip). Otherwise, 14 gauge wire would be more than adequate for an LED fixture.
3. Obviously, you can't use standard lamp cord inside a wall. You would need to use rated cable such as Romex.
4. Connection at the lamp. Ideally the fixture would be designed for hard wiring, with a proper cable clamp and space in the fixture to make connections with wire nuts. Unfortunately, many undercabinet fixtures are made to plug in. The obvious solution would be to install an outlet near the fixture where the lamp could be plugged in. Unless the lamp manufacturer provides a certified junction box of some type, there aren't many low profile options that can fit under a cabinet.

My use of crimp connectors is certainly "NOT" code compliant, but done properly it is a safe installation as long as the splice is not buried in a wall and the cables are properly secured.

Anthony Watson

Crimp connections are legal splices if used in the proper enclosure. I see the real issue with this installation is the cord to the lamp. This is using the provisions of "fixture wires" that allow an 18 gauge conductor to be hard wired to a branch circuit. Typically that will be in a box that is part of the listed product or where the fixture canopy acts as the cover for a regular device box. If he ran this cord to a surface mounted box and used a suitable entry connector I doubt any inspector would have a problem with it but if this cord goes into a wall, it is clearly a violation.

Thank you! I was hoping you'd respond. :-)

You have essentially confirmed what I considered the main issue with this installation: That pesky flexible cord.

Could the cord be attached to the bottom of a cabinet, go through a hole in the cabinet bottom and into a junction box inside the cabinet? From there a properly sized run of Romex could go into the wall and to the source.

I suggest this as means to avoid having a surface mounted box out in the open.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com posted for all of us...

YEAH, except I'm only a volley and not union. Put the wet stuff on the red stuff. Never lost a foundation yet...

Absolutely but at that point, why not just put a duplex receptacle in there and put a plug on the cord. Then you would have another outlet for something else. A "wiremold" box is designed for surface mount and really does not look that bad. They are also pretty shallow.

I assume you mean a duplex inside the cabinet, right?

Just in case you missed it, the OP has stated he does not want to plug the fixture into the existing counter receptacle.

Would it need to be GFCI protected? It couldn't be on the counter appliance circuit, could it?

Just curious, if that was mounted outside the cabinet, how would it be distinguished as not being a counter receptacle?

yes

No it doesn't need to be GFCI, unless it is within 6' of the sink but it would still be on one of the small appliance circuits. We have 2 different issues. All 120v receptacles in the kitchen, dining room, pantry etc need to be 20a with no other outlets (except for a 15a refrigeration outlet) but only the ones serving the countertop need GFCI. You will also be picking up wall receptacles in the dining or similar rooms on the SA circuits but they don't have to be GFCI. If you do not avail yourself of the reefer exception, you can put the fridge on a SA circuit, before or after the GFCI. There is nothing to say you can't have more than 2 SA circuits. It just says they all have to be 20a and only serve the areas that require SA circuits. (you can't go through the wall and serve the outside deck) After the 2014 is adopted in your area, it would need to be AFCI (including 30ma GF protection)

As long as you have 2 "clean" SA circuits in a kitchen remodel they will usually give you a break if some of the other circuits are shared. At my house, the fridge is on with the bathroom vanity light and the lights in the attic. I didn't see it as an issue and when the Lee County guy inspected me he never even asked because that wall was not opened up. I did pull in 2 clean circuits and left the old ones so I have lots of power in the kitchen.

As always, thank you for sharing your expertise.

I recently replaced our old fluorescent undercabinet lamps with new LED fixtures. Unfortunately, I could not find a junction box thin enough to mount under my cabinet. The romex cable already came out of the wall, so I used crimp connectors and heat shrink tubing to connect the transformer cord to the romex. I'm sure it doesn't meet code, but it's secure and easily accessable from under the cabinet.

Could he install the outlet above the cabinet, then run the lamp cord through the cabinet to plug in the outlet above (with some kind of physical protection for the cord)?

I used that method when we remodeled my in-laws house, but I had built dedicated chases in the cabinets for the cord to pass through. Once the cabinets were installed, I simply slipped the lamp cord up through the chase and plugged them into the outlets above. The outlets aren't visible from below unless you stand on a ladder.

Anthony Watson