Icon of the Seas

[Retirednoguilt]

Which is much more likely when you have prolonged contact with a few thousand people than with a few dozen.

[hubops]

Please post these inexpensive small-ship cruises ! When my wife was on her Alaska cruise I looked up a few of the smaller-ship Alaska / British Columbia cruise packages and they were _double_ and _triple_ what she paid. Two friends have been on the European river cruises and while thoroughly pleased with the experience - they sure didn't rave about the cost .. John T.

[Ed P]

Isn't that like saying a Lamborghini should cost less than a Dodge Caravan because it is smaller?

No desire to go on the big ships but would like to do a small boat river cruise.

[hubops]

Look no further :

John T. :-0

[Ben Verified - ✅]

But...but...but Obiden said if you get the damn shot you won't get the Covid cooties. Was Obiden lying again?

[micky]

No, carnies stand in opposition to marks, so that is their relationship, but crew and passenger share the characteristic of living on the boat, so it's not like tbat.

[Scott Lurndal]

Rather, carnies provide service to marks and recieve monetary compensation.

Same is true for crew vs. passsengers.

And both Carnies and Crew have similar opinions of their 'clients'.

[Retirednoguilt]

As I said in an earlier post, check out Grand Circle Travel's small ship adventures and the cruises offered by it's affiliated company, Oversea Adventure Travel. Then compare their daily costs with Crystal, Silver Sea, Tauck, Windstar, Paul Gauguin, and Lindblad.

[hubops]

May 2024 11 nights Mediterranean 4200 ship $ 2400. Canadian

May 2024 12 nights France river cruise $ 4800. US dollars = $ 6600. Canadian

= more than double the cost.

John T.

[Clare Snyder]

Hey, not speaking negatively - just stating facts. They ARE mire expensive - - and I explained why.. I also stated - truthfully - that the last couple years have been challenging for the river cruise industry due to climate issues. And you need to learn to read - I stated the RIVER cruises allow you to SEE more - which is an advantage. Nobody needs to see MORE SEA. How you read I am against small ship cruising is beyond me. I'd LOVE to do a river cruise some day - even a Trent-Severn waterway tour here in Ontario

[Clare Snyder]

Done it twice. Very enjoyable but definetly a "poor man's cruise" Not sure I'd want to spend a week on it!!!!

[Retirednoguilt]

I believe that I know how to read. I also understand the generally accepted rules of grammar and style. My understanding is that when parsing complex sentences, the modifying phrase (or phrases) that follow multiple subjects being compared modifies the last subject being compared prior to the modifying phrase. Otherwise, the writer commits a grammatical error known as a misplaced modifier. At best, the reader is confronted with an ambiguous sentence. At worst, the reader misinterprets the writer's intent.

You wrote, "Riuver [sic] cruises are significantly more expensive than ocean cruises (due in part to splitting the operationg [sic] costs over many fewer passengers) but also incluse [sic] many of the "shore excursions" as standard." The modifying phrase, " but also incluse [sic] many of the "shore exclusions" as standard." therefore is considered modifying the last subject being compared, which was "ocean cruises". Therefore, I understood you to be saying that ocean cruises include more shore excursions. I know that's not an accurate statement but it's what I understood you to say.

As far as your economic analysis as to why you believe that river cruises cost more to operate per passenger than do ocean cruises, I'd love to see authoritative numbers on that. Ocean cruises require much more crew, much more fuel, much more expensive insurance on the vessel, much more food and more expensive docking fees. Ocean cruises also have more salary expenses for all the entertainment personnel who remain onboard for a much longer time, often the entire cruise. On board entertainers/lecturers on river cruises come on board for a few hours after dinner while in port and then depart. Also, it's a lot easier to leave port with a full contingent of between 25-100 passengers for a river cruise than a full contingent of thousands for an ocean cruise. However, much of the corporate overhead for an ocean cruise, e.g. fuel, ship's insurance, crew size and docking fees remains the same or almost the same regardless of passenger load. Finally, the physical environment of being on an ocean is much more corrosive than being on a river. Ocean liners require much more ongoing maintenance and more frequent overhauls to keep them ship-shape than do river vessels.

[hubops]

Feel better now ? ;-) John T.

[Retirednoguilt]

You don't ever feel it necessary to defend and/or explain something you've said or done if you believe your accuser has their facts wrong?

[hubops]

< verbose diatribe snipped >

I don't tend to characterize a different opinion as an accusation. ps : I'm still waiting for you to show an inexpensive river cruise. I looked - and they were about double the cost of a big-boat cruise. John T.

[Retirednoguilt]

I think my problem may be that there are very few river cruises that are very short. Most are at least 2 week or 3 week duration. There are lots of budget ocean cruises that are 1 week duration or even less, e.g. New Jersey to Bermuda. Many of these short ocean cruises can be booked off season on older ships for less than $200/night/person. Repositioning cruises, which are almost entire at sea can also be inexpensive. However, once you examine inexpensive ocean cruises of 2+ weeks, the prices are usually at least $275/night/person which is similar to what you will pay for inexpensive river cruises. You are looking strictly at cost/night regardless of duration. My frame of reference is cost/night for a 2-3 week experience onboard because we've been fortunate to be able to afford that duration of cruise. That's not to say that we ignore costs. I did have my entire career, except for 2 years, on active duty in the military. My wife worked at several colleges as an adjunct faculty member for an average of less than $3K/1 semester per course salary But value does not equate to price for us. It's how much enjoyment do we receive for dollar(s) spent. Our experiences, considering our tastes in vacationing, have been that river cruises are a much better value than ocean cruises.

If your vacation selection criterion is strictly cost, you are more likely to have a disappointing experience. Yes, a scheduled intercity bus fare is likely to be much cheaper than a door to door hired car, but the experiences aren't equivalent.

[Clare Snyder]

You may be an english scholar and etimologist or whatever (I doubt it) but IF I had meant what you understood I would have said River cruises are significantly more expensive than ocean cruises (due in part to splitting the operationg [sic] costs over many fewer passengers) Ocean cruises also include many of the "shore excursions" as standard."

Which is NOT what I said, or meant.

I said (due in part to splitting the operatiing costs over many fewer passengers) This is obviously not the WHOLE difference - as I made VERY CLEAR (at least to most english speaking readers) by stating the more expensive river cruise also incluses most of the "shore excursions" which are extra cost on ocean cruises.

I've never had anything to do with maintaing ocean cessels, but I know operating and maintaining freshwater vessels is FAR from inexpensive!!!!!! (My daughter and son-in-law own a 46 foot cruiser)

[Clare Snyder]

Let's compare apples to apples then. When I cruise it is always a minimum of 10 days - usually 14 or more - the last 2 were both over 3 weeks. Repositioning cruises are an exception - but then ALL you see is sea - I don't call that a "cruise" - I call that an ocean voyage. My last cruise was 39 days - my next one will be 14 and the next one somewhere between 30 and 19 days.

39 days from New Zealand to Vancouver, with stops in NZ, Australia, New Caledonia, American Samoa, Fiji/ and Hawaii cost $282 CANADIAN - or roughly $163 American dollars per night - and that included internet access (poor in the middle of the Pacific) and complete drink package as well as $600 worth of shore excursion credits. The previous cruise from Rotterdam to Rotterdam via about 14 stops in Norway, Iceland, and Scotland cost roughly the same per day with the same perks Our upcoming Alaska cruise will be 14 days for under $6000 - so $428 Canadian ( $US 247) or less per day - including internet, drinks,and all tips and gratuities as well as several hundred dollars in onboard credits which can be applied to shore excursions. For 2 people that compares pretty favourably to going to Vancouver or New York or Amsterdam or Paris and paying for a hotel, restaurant meals, and local transportation. The Alaskan cruise is on a smaller ship so the pilotage and docking fees and other "fixed expenses" are amortized over a smaller number of passengers. The fuel costs and engineering staff costs don't scale linearly either, so the cost per passenger is higher.

Also I have never been on a cruise that was less than about 90% subscribed. Cruiselines (at least the ones I cruise on) are not having ANY trouble filling cabins

[Retirednoguilt]

[snipped for brevity]

May we both go in peace and agree to disagree! Oh, by the way, with respect to understanding the burdens of good stewardship of a boat and/or ship, I did spend the best part of 30 years on active duty in the U.S. Navy (the remainder on active duty in the Air Force) and have a modest understanding of the topic. Further details are limited by the nature of my assignments, which varied among more and less classified. After all, loose lips sink ships.