How to remove pool drain cover 9 feet under water to check for a clogged pipe?

[trader4]

Somewhere along the way he mentioned that he doesn't understand how a pipe could be collapsed. One key issue is what pipe was used. Around here, NJ, they usually use flex PVC because it's easier to work with. Problem with that is that it can collapse if not backfilled carefully or subjected to too much vacuum. Also, it's often not possible to tell what they used. Pool here uses flex PVC underground but transitions to regular PVC prior to exiting the ground.

Not saying that's his problem, just one more thing to consider. I'd proceed by rigging up something to put either water or air down the suspect pipe, keeping the pressure below 15 or 20PSI or so. I've rigged up fittings from my air compressor to pool lines. If he can't get access to do that with what's there, cutting the PVC line at an appropriate spot is no big deal. Also, they have what are called "snap tees". Hard to describe, but google is your friend. Basicly it's a T that is made to snap onto an existing pipe. You use regular PVC cement, snap it on, then use a drill to make a hole in the existing pipe. Could use that to get his access point, connect water or air, close whatever valve he has and then test.

[bob haller]

Hide quoted text -

he could get a plumber to run a camera down the line to see exactly whats wrong. depending on what the line is made of it might be possible to snake it.

some problems can be endlessely discussed where it takes less time to just go exploring......

[Jules Richardson]

Make yourself a dry-dock using marine ply and the biggest pump you can find? At the very least, it'll make for a good darwin award story if it all goes wrong :-)

cheers

Jules

[SF Man]

The snake idea is interesting. I have a 100' long snake that just might work. Thanks for that idea. I never tried it with PVC pipe ... so I would need to be gentle as the thing runs off 120 volt power with a big rotating drum.

[SF Man]

How did you know!

BTW, I 'was' employed when I got the house (at a very good price). But I was laid off a few months after that.

I'm living off my savings at the moment. Over 55 and over the hill.

It's not easy starting over (I was at the same company for decades).

Anyway, I thought the whole purpose of alt.home.repair is to ask advice and I'm very glad you guys are volunteering the time to provide that advice.

My nntp news provider limits the number of messages a day so this is coming a day after I posted it. Sorry about that.

[SF Man]

This is a good warning!

Many a time I've done something, only to rue the lack of forethought when something like a dust cloud occurs.

I'm not sure what this means. Even if the pool turned black, I, personally, would be safe as I'd just float upward.

So the guide rope must be for the hose?

Note: Sorry this is a day late. My nntp news provider limits posts to something like 25 per day only and I've been answering everyone here (as a courtesy and to respond and to appreciate their advice).

[SF Man]

Renting makes sense but I like to own my (used) equipment. The advantage of owning the equipment is that, over time, you end up finding other uses for the stuff that you never imagined. At least that's what happens to me! :)

I agree. The pool is warm (82 to 85 degrees F). And only 9 feet deep. I do need weight though. But that's no big deal.

When I was less fat, a few decades ago, I was 12% body fat (weighted under water in the chair) and, interestingly, in my entire scuba class at college, not one other person had ZERO lead weight in the pool. Everyone else (women and men included), needed a few pounds, fully laden with scuba gear, to be neutral. BTW, this was in the days of the horse collar so we didn't use BCs.

Even in the ocean, I only used 4 pounds of lead, which was way less than anyone else. Now, I float like an iceberg! So, the one thing I 'do' need is the lead weight! :)

Interesting. I wonder what happens to the sidewall safety drain. I guess you have to plug it becuase it's only about 3 feet below the surface.

BTW, I said the drain cover is 18 inches but that's too wide. It's about a foot (or so) in diameter.

[SF Man]

All the pipe I can "see" is 2" white PVC painted black. Schedule 40 I think it's called.

I had to replace an elbow and that's what I used and it seemed to be the same stuff (once I painted it black).

Nothing was flexible. It's all hard-plumbed pipe.

This is the best idea, I think.

There is no way it's going to work if I start at the pool equipment (which is about 5 feet or so BELOW the level of the pool) but I probably can rig something at the debris cannister at the top deck of the pool and/or at the actual drain itself in the bottom of the pool.

NOTE: You will see this, unfortunately, in a day, because the news server I'm using limits messages, apparently, to 10 a day (and just responding to you guys belatedly exceeded that so this is bouncing when I send it).

[SF Man]

I think that's the way it's built.

Hmmm... that's a good point (which I had not thought of).

All I 'actually' know is that when I turn the compool electrical valve from Spa or from Spa/Pool to just Pool, the pump loses its water in the pump basket. It's sucking more air than water.

I 'thought' that meant the drain is clogged (especially since the two squirters opposite it are not working).

But, maybe that just means there is a leak in the line?

Yikes. How would one find an air leak in when it's all buried underground (mostly)?

[SF Man]

I started doing this when I removed the pump motor (to get the two bearings replaced, and the buna seal and the o-ring.

Then, I belatedly realized, the pump equipment is five feet (or so) BELOW the pool!

So, there is NO WAY I'll be able to push water back against that force from the pool pump equipment!

I bought, for $25 from a local pool supply store, a white canvas 'bag' that goes over the pool hose that expands and squirts water into a 2-inch pipe.

That tool can't be placed at the pool pump (see why above); but it can be used (I think) at the drain itself at the bottom of the pool, or, better yet, at the debris cannister topside on the pool deck, above the drain.

So that's what I'm going to try first!

[Pete C.]

No floating. When you are diving to do work like this you dive over weighted / without a BC so that you can push and pull on things without moving yourself around.

No, for you. So you can just stand up with a hand on the guide rope and follow it walking towards the shallow end until you surface.

[trader4]

I found mine by plugging all of the pool outlets on the line in question except for one. I closed off the valve at the pool pad on that line. On the remaining pool side outlet, I screwed in a 2" threaded PVC adaptor that transitioned to an air chuck which I then connected to my air compressor.

I suspected a leak and was actually going to see if it would hold pressure. But as I tried to pressurize it, while I was still trying to stop air leaking around the PVC adaptor, I heard air and water boiling out of the ground back near the pool pad.

If you do that, don't go over about

15 or 20psi. I'd also do it right after the pump has been running for a while. I think that way there is probably going to be more water around the leak area, so more water to spot boiling out of the ground.

I also see you mentioned sand destroying the impeller. Where is that coming from? Does a lot blow into the pool from the environment? If not, another sign of a leaking pipe is sand, small pebbles, getting sucked in. On mine, two main symptoms of the suction side leak were:

A - Those pebbles and sand showing up in the strainer basket

B- Some constant air bubbles in the strainer

C - A brown cloud that went by some number of seconds after the pump started each time. I actually used that to determine the approximate location of the suspected leak before finding it with air. I shut the pump off, then put some blue food coloring in one of the skimmers. I turned the pump on and timed how long it took for the blue to show up at the pump strainer. I then timed how long it takes for the brown cloud to show up, giving an idea of where the leak is relative to the total length of pipe.

[trader4]

Not that it really matters, because a leak is a leak, but on the pool here no flexible PVC was visible either. It was used only underground and transitioned to regular PVC before coming out of the ground. The only difference with flex PVC you need to be aware of is that it doesn't tolerate very much suction pressure without collapsing. So be careful with your test technique unless you know for sure you don't have it.

Applying pressure at the pool pad, either water or air is just as effective as applying it at the pool end. You'd need a couple more PSI to handle the

5 ft rise, but that's it.

Don;t know the exact layout you have to work with there. But my first thought would be to apply air at the pool pad and see where bubbles come out. If you have lots of air coming out the bottom drain and no brown water, I'd say it's unlikely a clog you're dealing with.

[SF Man]

Interesting.

I understand adding additional safety measures, and, I agree, a guide rope is pretty trivial to hook up (so why not), but, still, I can't fathom an 'emergency' in a pool that has such a small deep end (the deep end is ONLY there for the self-cleaning system to work).

By the way, if you haven't seen this type of pool, you'd have no idea how STEEP the slope is at the deep end. It's nothing like a 'regular' pool.

It's about as steep as a steep ski slope. The whole point, apparently, is to push debris toward the deep end where it can't get out.

I'd say it looks almost like, oh, about 30 degrees. Before I realized the entire pool is designed around the cleaning system, I wondered who on earth would make the 8 or 9 foot deep end so short (it's only about 4 feet wide on the bottom of the deep end) and then have a slippery sloap that was almost 45 degrees up to the shallow end.

It was too short for diving (you'd dive right past it) and the shallow slope would kill anyone who tried as they'd it it head on, literally.

The whole pool made no sense (to me) until I talked to the company (Lifetime Pools) that built it and to the company that designed the cleaning system

Here they tout the pool is built to clean itself!

In that two-page PDF, you can see that two jets are dedicated to the filter system to push debris directly to the drain. It's 'that' part of the system that I'm trying to debug.

[SF Man]

I'll try that as I'm 'sure' there are leaks (I put in 500 gallons every few days ... and my well output is only about 400 gallons in a 24-hour day).

When I bought the forclosure, I was told they emptied the pool, but, rainwater filled it (that's a LOT of rain!) and then the vector control guys threw mosquitoe fish into it to keep the mosquitoes down.

It was greenish brown when I got it, and the water level was about a foot below the deck. The fish were happily swimming about, eating the algae. The bottom had mud on it everywhere, which we had cleaned up by a work crew.

Normally, no sand spills into the pool (it gets wind borne debris, but, not much).

Interesting. I 'do' see tiny pebbles in the filter basket and wondered how they got there ...

That I never see.

[SF Man]

Oh, yeah. I forget how unforgetful the Internet is! :)

That oak is drying nicely now ... but man oh man ... anyone who splits these things by hand deserves my respect!

I'll try these nntp settings and see how that works out (thanks!).

Server name: news.eternal-september.org Port : 119 (NNTP) Port : 563 (encrypted connection NNTPS)

[SF Man]

That's a great diagnostic technique ...

I will see what I can rig to go from the air nozzle to the 2 inch opening at the bottom of the debris cannister first.

A diagram of the layout, roughly, is in this web page:

[DD_BobK]

T4-

A snap tee's is a great idea in this situation.

I use them all the time to add sprinklers to existing lines or to "tap off" existing lines.

[bldaz10]

She Who Must Be Obeyed? whaaaaaat?

[BR]

replying to Evan, BR wrote: You sound like a troll who lives in his mom's basement. Move on!