How to kill those "Klunkers"

[HeyBub]

They made toys and other stuff. It was all marked: "Made in Occupied Japan."

[gfretwell]

If you were watching CSpan yesterday afternoon you would have heard where the money is coming from. They are taking it from the renewable energy rebate program. That money will have to be replaced from somewhere but the source of that money is still undetermined. The fact remains that any new spending will simply be piled on top of the $2 trillion deficit and our grand kids will be paying for that for the rest of the century. (assuming there still is a US government to pay back those loans). The unanswered question is how we run the government when China (UK, Germany, Saudi et al) stops renewing their bonds with us. We might be taking $100 dollar bills to the grocery store in wheelbarrows.

[George]

but

Around 5:30 on Wednesday at a local pizza shop that happened to have a TV on. It was the typical liberal "I am such a uber smart person and found money to do this" comment. No clue where he happened to be speaking. The "found" referred to some shell game move it from someplace else deal.

Please answer my question about where he actually gets the money to pay for these programs?

[AZ Nomad]

person, but

Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does: they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be explained to you?

[Don Klipstein]

How about, for example, an early 1970's Caddilac getting 10 MPG? That's

5,000 gallons of gasoline, should any 1970's Caddilacs be able to run another 50,000 miles. 5,000 gallons of gasoline is about 120 barrels. Crude has been around $70 at some recent time or another, meaning energy cost of about $8,000.

Of course, cars with better efficiency than a 1974 DeVille will consume less than $8,000 of energy (before fuel taxes) to drive 50,000 miles, but still quite a few thousand dollars.

Do you really think that much is spent on energy to build a new car, with so much of its cost to dealer going to wages and salaries and perks, worker benefits, corporate taxes, liability insurance, advertising, etc.? I hope this gives some idea on energy consumption by manufacturing.

Also consider the fact that older cars, even for a given amount of energy consumption, produce plenty of pollution. Modern steel mills and electric generating stations are comparatively clean, since it's mainly internal combustion combustion engines that produce nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbon vapors that are essential for the formation of the worst air pollutant in densely populated areas - lower atmospheric ozone.

- Don Klipstein ( [e-mail])

[Don Klipstein]

It will come from you and me. It's our money.

Meanwhile, one question I think worth asking is: How much value did the cars being clunkerjunked have above their scrap value? If that exceeds how much more they would have cost to operate through the remainders of their natural lives than their replacements would cost for same miles, then America as a whole is losing from the destruction of these cars. (Decrease the fuel cost difference by the loss of the portion of fuel taxes actually used to effectively serve the taxpayers.)

I would have had this program changed to require a bigger upgrade in fuel economy, minimum of either 70% MPG improvement or both 9 MPG improvement and 50% MPG improvement by the new car over the destroyed one.

(I would have improvement by 50-69% but by under 9 MPG qualify for a smaller rebate, to provide an incentive to take an easily available larger improvement.)

- Don Klipstein ( [e-mail])

[Ed Pawlowski]

Who cares what he said or did not say. Fact is, this is a redistribution of wealth plan. Short lived (hopefully) program to take our money and help buy new cars for others. Not much different than a Ponzi scheme where we all pay in and a handful of us grab the money and run.

[gfretwell]

The problem with that is a 1970 (or even a 1983) car is not eligible for CARS. The cut off is 25 years old

[Kurt Ullman]

I have always thought that calling anything the government did a Ponzi scheme was an insult to Ponzi. At least he got his "investors" to kick in voluntarily. Try to avoid paying taxes and see how voluntary that is.

[George]

It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like "we found it".

[AZ Nomad]

Can't you argue a point without introducing strawmen?

[George]

Sure, and I did. This thread regarded liberal thinking (in case you didn't notice liberals control the entire Federal government). So my comment about typical liberal thinking is quite valid. I did notice that you seem to like to declaring things are "irrelevent" when they are touching a nerve.

[Ed Pawlowski]

They found it in our pockets

[AZ Nomad]

as opposed to? Do anybody really need it explained that govt. either taxes or borrows?

[aemeijers]

Well, lately, they are doing the electronic equivalent of just running the printing presses. And the world is noticing- the exchange rates against the other major currencies are going down. Bankers know a defacto devaluation when they see it.

Things will probably hold together, sort of, for the 20 or 30 years I probably have left. But I fear what middle age holds for my little niece and nephew. Good thing their daddy is teaching them how to to plant and grow veggies on a production basis, and tend chickens. At least they won't starve.

-- aem sends....

[Kurt Ullman]

We'll be the North American Britain by then. Basking in our former glory, doing okay but not as good as in our hay-day, and plugging along.

[AZ Nomad]

That would be an improvement over the insane borrowing. Both devalue the money, but the latter requires payback.

I predicted raging inflation a decade ago; how else can the U.S. deal with the ten trillion dollar debt? Made it worth the equivelent of 100 billion!

[aemeijers]

Remember that when your retirement plan sends you a check based on what money is worth today, and a loaf of bread is fifty bucks....

-- aem sends...

[N8N]

:

:

If you're investing in stock, especially foreign stocks, that should actually work out OK for you.

If you have some other kind of plan... well...

nate

[gfretwell]

Some of your portfolio should be in gold, ammo and MREs