How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

[Sid 03]

We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ? Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated. Thank You.

[hubops]

Dimmable LED "puck" lights. John T.

[Scott Lurndal]

Box them in with 2x6s. Better to get IC rated cans.

[gfretwell]

Can you get to the top of the ceiling or are you working from below? They do make boxes for the purpose but you need access. I would look harder for IC rated cans. They are out there. As far as I know, it is just an internal thermal fuse anyway. Disclaimer: I just look at the labels, I don't make them. From a practical sense LEDs are probably going to make all that IC stuff go away anyhow. They just don't get that hot. I haven't installed anything but LEDS in the last few years. They have easy retrofits for cans with the lens and trim that just snap in.

[Retirednoguilt]

If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)

[Retirednoguilt]

Sorry, in the first sentence, I meant to say, "...and you use LEDs, there's much less heat generated."

[gfretwell]

In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts. They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

[Sid 03]

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had to buy what matched (what she wanted) Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides and box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 holes to let some heat escape) I have never seen a pre-built box, if some has a link to one, please post it.

Thank You.

[Dean Hoffman]

Would something like this be of any use?

[Scott Lurndal]

four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough if you have blown insulation.

[Sid 03]

Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip) It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose. Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.

[gfretwell]

[Sid 03]

Looks like people are building there own boxes:

[Sid 03]

Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

[Dean Hoffman]

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?

[gfretwell]

The last time I saw it done they used scraps of duct board I assume they pulled out of the dumpster. That was a while ago and not my job but I was shadowing another inspector. They did what Scott said and left the top open. The question then became how the structural guy was going to feel about the lack of draft stopping and insulation but that wasn't our call. That was the last time I saw a non-IC can in new construction. I suspect the E-Codes made that unattractive. Now they just pack them in with insulation.

[Sid 03]

Those two items I posted are expensive, no matter where you buy them ! Option B may just be a piece of foam-board for $15 and cut and duct-tape my own together ?!

[trader_4]

One of the benefit of LEDs is that there are ones that are energy rated for minimal air leakage and even non-rated ones should leak a lot less air than a conventional fixture. The best ones have a gasket that seals even better. I wouldn't be putting in anything other than LEDs today for general lighting.

[Sid 03]

I get the whole LED thing, I use them a lot and intend to on these lights as I did on the others. But from the point of view of a building anything for others, You have to anticipate for the possibility that someone may in some time in the future screw in an incandescent or halogen bulb into the fixture. Most likely someone from my family !

[Tekkie©]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to digest...

Full or empty? ;)