How much force to tip over a tree

[Bob F]

I have a columnar white pine tree, about 40 feet tall and maybe

8" in daimeter at the base, I need to remove. I am considering trying to use an old climbing rope and a come-along to winch it out of the ground. I figure that if I attach the rope to the tree about 30 feet from the ground, it shouldn't be too hard to winch it over. I would used prussiks to allow me to pull it multiple winch- fulls to move it far enough to break roots (with a little axe help maybe). Does anyone have any idea how much force this should take? Will it work?

Bob

[maradcliff]

You gotta be kidding !!!!!

Have you ever heard of a chainsaw? I can guarantee that if your winch, cable, whatever you use does not fail first, the tree will snap off somewhere along the trunk, and the snapback will likely hurt someone and/or damage property. Cut it down, then use the winch to help remove the stump while you dig and chop roots.

(You CAN connect your winch to help assist the tree to fall the desired way, when you saw it off. Just snug it up before you start sawing, and of course know how to make the cut).

Of course you could always call a tree expert too !!!!

[Bob F]

Once it's cut, the winch is going to be a whole lot less effective. No leverage.

Bob

[Joseph Meehan]

Bob, I really think you are going to be a lot safer following the advice. It may be a little more work, but think of this: If it were easier and safe, don't you think the professional loggers would have been doing it for years?

[dadiOH]

I have no idea but I can tell you a palm tree can easily be pushed over with a tractor.

Kinda doubt it. The only pines I have any experience with are Southern yellow and they have a pretty good root system. I imagine your rope will break first and if you beef up your rope to 1" Dacron or so or a stout wire rope I suspect the trunk will snap.

[DK]

My banana tree can be pushed over with one hand. My pecan tree would break before it pulled loose. My Willow could be pulled over with a

10 ton bulldozer anchoring the winch.

[nicksanspam]

What's the highest wind it's been exposed to? At V mph, P = 0.00256V^2 psf, eg 6.4 psf at 50 mph. On a 40'x10' wide tree, this would make 2560 pounds with a 2560x20 = 51.2K lb-ft moment, vs 1 ton x 30' up = 60K lb-ft.

It might, if the force is applied over a long time, eg a month. You might tie the top of the tree to the base of another with 5 loops of 400 pound rope and tighten it every few days with the come-along, so you can keep it out of the rain, and water the base of the tree.

Nick

[Doug Miller]

You're kidding, right?

A whole lot more force than is required to break the tree trunk.

Or your rope.

Nope.

[Avery]

Not likely! and all abit dangerous - climbing 30 ft to attach the winch for a start. There is no way that you are going to break roots. HAve a look at some photos from the latest hurricane/cyclone/typhoon. Roots don't break, they come out of the ground , but only with the right amount of encouragement.

Try a chainsaw, or if you don't like them, an 8" diameter trunk really wont take too long with a good sharp axe.

If you are at all worried about where the thing will fall, call a professional!.

Come to think of it - call a professional anyway!

[Jim Elbrecht]

I'd probably go 20' -- and I would keep a close eye on the tree to make sure it doesn't snap.

If you've got a sacrificial axe and not too rocky soil that might work. I've used a demo hammer with a sharpened clay spade with good results--- and a reciprocating saw is handy sometimes, too.

It depends entirely on the root system and soil. Sandy wet soil & you're home free. Dry, rocky soil & you've got a couple days work for one man.

If your anchor point is heavy enough and you release enough of the root system- sure.

I did a similar one a few years ago. Cut it off at 20'- then pulled it with my old Taurus while cutting roots. Found several large roots near the surface-- and a nasty tap root that went deep.

Next one I cut off at 20 feet- debranch - make a platform for hawk/owl nests on top and carve the rest into a totem pole.

Jim

[mrsgator88]

Probably because palms are not really trees.

Pines were used for masts on sailing ships hundreds of years ago. Today's pines are probably not nearly as strong, but still... two-four cuts with a chainsaw and a nice push are all it takes. Even I took down a tree that size when I was a teen, with my dad and brother. Really no big deal.

S

[Toller]

Like everyone else, I hope you are kidding. But if you are not, do not use a climbing rope. That would be really dangerous. Use a static rope; that would only be pretty dangerous.

And it won't work anyhow. I had a "microburst" 7 years ago. I broke 15 mature white pines in my yard. The only tree it uprooted was a butternut.

I spent a weekend digging out a 3" diameter white pine a few years back. Try to live with it, or at least with the stump.

>

[HeyBub]

The roots on palm trees are about six inches long. In LA, people STEAL palm trees with a wrecker - just pluck-n-go.

On a pine, there is more tree BELOW ground than above.

[bremen68]

Depending on what soil that trees in I don't think you want to do it this way... The only one that MIGHT work would be a really sandy soil mix. Doing it this way ---- When the tree breaks there's going to be some pretty impressive physics applied... :-)

Unless it's diseased, pre-cut, or full of termites that trees gonna break long before you ever uproot it with that method.

The safest way is to cut it with the chain saw and drop it where you want it. You'll have a couple of options to get rid of the stump. You can either. Cut it down as close to the ground as possible and let it rot, hire/rent a stump grinder and make it go that way, or there are several products on the market that you can cover/introduce via drilled holes into the stump that will either let you burn it (check your local ordinances) or rot faster. Or leave about four feet of stump and have a piece of heavy equipment (dozer, skidder) in to pull the stump.

Good luck...

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Yeah, water around the tree first so it goes over easer. Just make sure it is well saturated about 12 feet in diameter and 10 feet deep.

[Pat]

It'll either work fine or you'll win a Darwin Award. In either case, it's a win!!!

(p.s., don't forget to video it and put it on YouTube)

[Lawrence]

I have done something similar with a few oak trees that were near the house, one of them was 28 inches diameter. I used my skidsteer to dig a trench around the base of the tree breaking and tearing as many of the roots as possible. I doesn't take much digging and the tree can be pushed over with the machine. They are quite top heavy and leverage is your friend.

Usually I use a chainsaw but these trees were near the house and acually leaning towards the house. With this method I was able to push the tree in a safe direction, away from the house, much safer than using a saw.

If you don't have access to a skidsteer you could maybe rent a walk-behind trencher and make a trench around the base of the tree to the maximum depth. This should sever enough of the roots to winch it over.

A similar method could be used without a machine. You could hand dig around the base of the tree until some of the larger roots have been severed. Then try to winch it over. If it won't budge then you dig some more. It's not a safe as using a machine because you would have to winch the tree towards you rather than push it. Use a really long chain for safety sake when winching a tree toward you. Please be careful when working in the woods. Have a helper nearby just in case. Then you will have someone to share a beer with after the job is safely completed.

Lawrence

[nicksanspam]

I just bought a slingshot with an 8' handle to shoot an 8 oz bag of lead shot over a tree limb with thin twine attached, up to 100' up...

Note the little ax help.

Trees often fall over in winds.

That could help, if nothing happens in a few weeks.

Nick

[Steve Barker LT]

[Robert Allison]

That is not true. Pine trees have a small root ball, and are very prone to being blown over. They are very easy to knock down as I know from experience. I owned a logging company in East Texas (unfortunately during the Carter administration). Our skidder could easily push over a 10-12" pine. No way with an oak or a hickory. Part of my side work was to remove pines blown over by high winds. Oaks would snap in half. Oaks ARE larger underground than above, but this is not true of pines.