Heat pump SEER rating

[Commander Kinsey]

It amuses me that SEER is mostly used in America, but it uses *British* Thermal Units in the calculation!!

[Commander Kinsey]

This website claims that SEER is always measured the same, assuming a certain temperature range:

"SEER can be misleading. What people often don’t realize is that SEER is a ratio that only applies to a very specific set of test parameters which cover a pre-set temperature range. The problem with this is that when SEER is calculated it is calculated across the same universal range, regardless of where the person who is purchasing the air conditioner lives.

Ask yourself, when was the last time that it was 65 degrees in the summer if you live in Santa Clarita, California? Probably a lot less likely than if you live in Lake Arrowhead or worse yet, Seattle, Washington. So although SEER is a universal measure of efficiency, it can be misleading in the sense that the average temperature range in Santa Clarita is far different from the average summer temperatures in Bozeman, Montana, but yet the same SEER rating would be on the tag in each."

[micky]

This is the more important question.

No, I meant the US. He says there's a minimum SEER, but I'm curious if there's a minimum EER.

BTW, a good chance you can't find the exact same model number in the US vs. UK, even if they were the very same, but since the cps is different, they're probably not the very same.

[trader_4]

OK, so suppose we have a system that's rated 13 SEER and we run it in Santa Clarita CA and we run it in Seattle. We run an 18 SEER system in both of those locations too. Show us where the 18 SEER system doesn't use less energy for the amount of heat moved in both.

[Commander Kinsey]

Argh, so I really need to find data for the heating and the cooling cycle.

Two seperate circuits? Two condensers etc?

Bullshit. A camera makes a certain number of pixels. A battery has a certain number of amp hours. For example, I bought a "Probat" (shitty make) car battery, and an Exide (good make) car battery. They were both rated at 45 Ah. I charged them both fully. Then I connected each to a car headlamp bulb, drawing about 4 amps. I measured the current over time and worked out the real Ah. The Exide was almost spot on, about 43 Ah. The Probat was 32 Ah. I got a partial refund when I yelled at the seller. Cameras have the same problem. My Fuji camera claims 10MP. But it's very easy to determine it's actually about 2.5MP. Take a picture at full resolution in favourable lighting. Load it into Photoshop and reduce the size to 2.5MP. Save it. Load it again, then enlarge back to 10MP. Clearly this image now only has 2.5MP of data. Compare this image to the original from the camera. They're identical! So the camera was giving out no more data than a 2.5MP file. They lied.

Rating, specs, same thing. It's a number defining the capabilities of the device.

Iphone! BUAHAHAAH!!! Everyone I know with an Iphone is constantly moaning it went flat. My £13 phone lasts for WEEKS between charges. What Apple did wrong was the same mistake Clive Sinclair made - making things smaller to the cost of everything else. No room for enough battery. My phone uses two 18650 Li Ion batteries - same as a cycle lamp - total is 4.2V 6Ah. Easy to get replacements too. Oh and you don't need special tools to open the battery cover. And the phone doesn't deliberately disable itself if an unauthorised person opens it.

Yes, a phone can't guarantee battery life, but the battery itself can state a very precise Ah. They could also simply quote the measurement along with the conditions required. Eg. this car will get 50mpg if you drive on a motorway at a constant 70mph. Or this phone will allow you to talk for 3 hours if your signal strength is 90%.

Agreed - they don't lie. I have 6 of those 18650 Panasonics here. 3Ah on the label, 3Ah on my test. Even Samsung only get 80% of their rating. But try Chinese shit and you get 20%!

[Commander Kinsey]

Your sleep patterns are as bad as mine.

[Commander Kinsey]

One is proportional to the other. SEER assumes a set temperature.

What is cps?

[Commander Kinsey]

Presumably because we don't use AC much. Once they take over for heating, we'll no doubt get something.

[Commander Kinsey]

Well I would have thought the 18 unit would be 18/13 times more efficient. But perhaps some units cope better with different temperatures, so one unit produces 9-18 SEER depending on the weather, and the other 11-13 SEER. If you're in a difficult climate, the other might become better.

[gfretwell]

Farther down in that article they link the US SEER calculation model that is different but the US uses the same SEER across the country. When people turn on the A/C, the temp is probably going to be the same whether you are in Florida or Chicago. In fact those northerners may actually be more sensitive to a warm day than we are. I know the snow birds seem to die down here when it is 80 and my wife might still be wearing a sweater. OTOH at night she wants it 65-70 in the bedroom.

[gfretwell]

purchasing the air conditioner lives.

range in Santa Clarita is far different from the average summer temperatures in Bozeman, Montana, but yet the same SEER rating would be on the tag in each."

That is "US" Seer. The Wiki article implies it is different than UK SEER. I really don't know since I am in the camp that it is largely bullshit anyway. You may get a relative difference in efficiency between 2 units but the absolute number is a fantasy.

[gfretwell]

If it is an inverter machine, the differences would be minimal if any at all. Inverter power supplies pretty much treat all inputs the same. That is why they have such a "wide mouth".

[Rod Speed]

Mandating a move to them on some date in the future that I am too lazy to check because there is no chance that that will even happen then.

Politics doesn't work like that even with general elections.

Yep because you never see the icing problem with cooling and the temperature difference is lower even here were 45C isnt at all uncommon.

Yeah, its really the only viable way to do cooling unless it's a very low humidity area where you can use what the call swamp coolers which just have a f****ng great fan and woodwool pads with water running over them. That's what I use myself, but its very common to have single digit humiditys here when you need cooling.

MUCH cheaper to run than an AC.

Normally, but that may just be a quirk of SEERs and not seen with EERs which should quote both.

Not just the greenhouse effect, the sun comes right inside the house in winter and heats the massive great concrete slab directly as well.

And in winter I bask in the direct sun I sit in too.

Not very often at all. And I have what the manufacturers call a heated throw which is like an electric blanket that you have on top of you in the armchair or couch for those days.

But can be a big problem over time. Lots converted their cars to dual fuel here, gas and petrol, but there is no point in doing that anymore now that the price of the gas has hiked so dramatically over time here.

Not always, sometimes its just stops being viable anymore.

Nope, I'd much prefer to never have to do it again. I only do it to get a better result than I can buy.

Yes, but not for the sort of food I prefer to eat.

Almost all the food I eat is done in a digital air fryer now except steaks and pizzas. I don't stir fry much at all and do all the veg in the microwave except the stuff eaten uncooked like lettuce.

Too lazy because I don't plan to buy one.

[trader_4]

What you think "might be" is irrelevant. What matters is what really is. When you have something, anything, that shows a lower SEER unit becomes better in some parts of the country than a higher SEER rated system, let us know. What's next? An 80% eff furnace can use less energy for the same amount of heat as a 95% furnace, depending on where you are?

[micky]

This is the more important question, and you are the OP, but you ignored it.

[gfretwell]

Not necessarily. They are just telling you what CCD is in there. You can verify that easily by looking at the image properties. I bet it is around 10MP. What they don't say is whether the optics can actually resolve a picture with that detail. You may find many adjacent pixels have exactly the same data so when you compress and expand it, the result is so close you can't see the difference.

[gfretwell]

Only morons cal our power distribution 2 phase. The only difference between the US and UK/NZ or OZ is where they land the ground. It is all single phase. Heavy users on both situations may actually get all

3 phases from the PoCo. We center tap a 240v single phase secondary to divide it into two 120v sources but most central air units still run on 240 and you can get a mini split either way. (I have one each) Two phase is a whole different breed of cat and pretty much obsolete since before WWII. There may only be two small areas in the whole US that have a little two phase (Philly and Hartford CT) and it comes from Scott T transformers, not generation. The input is 3 phase.

[gfretwell]

purchasing the air conditioner lives.

temperature range in Santa Clarita is far different from the average summer temperatures in Bozeman, Montana, but yet the same SEER rating would be on the tag in each."

I doubt anyone thinks that but you might not actually see the rated SEER they advertise depending on where you live (probably NEVER according to the HVAC guys I know). It is just a relative rating and a theoretical number assuming everything was perfect.

[Clare Snyder]

Generally speeking it is a "benchmark" - a base of camparison. A-18 will be better than a 13. Neither one is liable to actually meet the advertized efficiency in real world conditions - but one can generally be expected to be about 30%? more efficient than the other?

[The Natural Philosopher]

That is cobblers. I've seen efficient motors runbing off 3V DC.

And that doesnt support the contention either.