Generator Recommendations and Advise

I have heard opinions on both sides of this issue as to whether natural gas supply and pressure actually drops in an area when a storm hits thus crippling emergency generators, or if gas pressure and supply actually improves since the vast majority of people without electricity cannot use their furnaces, dryers, ovens, etc. thereby leaving a greater supply for those who can draw natural gas. Our local gas company also claims that they manufacture gas powered electricity to run their distribution system to avoid dependency on local electrical supply. My experience being in the very heart of a recent extended outage in Amherst New York was that homes with natural gas generators including my next door neighbor ***had electricity*** but that gasoline was extremely difficult if not impossible to find on a continuing basis for those with gasoline powered generators.

What actual experiences have people encountered elsewhere?

Thanks,

Smarty

Reply to
Smarty
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I doubt natural gas troubles upon a storm, and have NEVER seen a report like that!

Having a variety of back ups is good.

main generator preferably on natural gas. along with a decent sized inverter to convert 12 volts from vehicle to 120 plus some 12 volt bulbs, home depot sells 40 watt 12 volt bulbs, put in trouble light with adapter cord to converty 120 to 12 volt battery clips. flashlights, batteries, hand crank radio, wood stove or fireplace with some firewood. and a supply of bottled water. power failures can cause water shortages. in hot areas a smnall window AC unit can provide comfy shared space if needed where even a large generator might have trouble running a whole house AC

Reply to
hallerb

We got an 11Kw on-demand propane-powered Coleman generator with a HONDA engine for the beach house. It fires weekly & runs 12 minutes at a time

- we keep check of the runnings. We upgraded our propane tank to 250 pounder (from twin 75s for stove) & feel comfortable we will be comfortable for a week or so at a time with judicious use of utilities. I like the 2 year warranty that came with the Coleman & feel fortunate to have found a reliable & responsive company to install & service generator & transfer switch. They stand behind all their work to date. Good luck in your search.

Reply to
stormy

Hi Amy,

I live in the NorthEast and last year went through 5 days without power. A tree knocked out the power lines. No water (we are on a well) and no heat. After the recovery we had burst pipes and mashed HVAC units. All the copper coils were broken.

One way of looking at the generator and instalation is cost pricing points. I sort of think of three price breakdowns:

1) Gasoline powered portable units $US 700 to about $US 2700 for Honda i7000AB then add maybe $1,000 for a transfer switch and professional electrician to install and hookup. 2) Fixed units up to the 12Kw range. e.g. Generacs from home depot. These are essentially air cooled lawn mower type engines, running at 3,600 rpm. They cost about $US 2,700 to $US 3,500 for the unit and maybe $US 2,000 to $US 3,000 for transfer switch and installation. I was quoted $US 11,000 for one here in New York. But I needed quite a bit done. The units are liftable by 4 men, and they can be installed on gravel foundations, saving cost in avoiding concrete foundations (local building code dependent). 3) Fixed units 15Kw and up, runs at 1,800 rpm, water cooled with oil filter. These units are based on car / truck engines. Cost is about $US 8,000 to $US 14,000 with installation at about $US 8,000 and up. There is a sigificant jump between this and type 2 mainly because of weight. You will need a concrete pad and a back-hoe type machine to life the generator which weighs about 1,200 lbs and up.

Most people I know around me went for type 2. I have a type 3 installation. I bought the generator from Costco, an older model Cummins Onan RS2000 about a year ago. The cost of the generator was $US

9,000 including a 200 AMP automatic transfer switch. Total cost was $US 21,000. I also had a 400 gallon propane tank installed. My units burns though about 3 gallons of propane per hour.

The unit I have is quite nice in that it is quieter than other units, will power up my central AC and about 50% of my house. I have well pump, ejector pump, furnace, fridge, HVAC air handlers, centeral air and lighting circuits connected up. Big power users such as double ovens and dryer are not connected. In case of a power outage everything is automatic and lights come back on in 20 seconds. The generator is keeped warm all year long with its own thermostatically controlled water heater.

I also know alot of people who have type 1 installation because of cost. This is a good way to go if you are prepared for some work arounds.

a) You need to have alot of gasoline stored. In may area a 20 gallon limit is enforced due to fire hazard. You need to put in a fuel stabilizer such as STABIL (Home Depot), and refresh your gasoline stock every autumn. I think 20 gallons will give you approx 24 hours constant run time on a portable unit.

b) You need to have a good place to put your generator while it is running. This has to be outside because of carbon monoxide poisioning risks to you and some distance say 5 feet from your house because of fire risk. The place needs to be sheltered from wind, snow and falling tree limbs. This is because you do not want your power outlets on your portable generator to get wet, and possibly electicute you if you touch it by accident.

c) You need to be prepared to refill your power generator with gasoline every five hours or so. Be careful because a hot generator and gasoline poses a fire risk. Keep you generator therefore some distance from your house. If you have 5 gallon plastic gas tanks, it may be easier to have a small hand pump. 5 gallons of gas is quite heavy, and most generator fill caps are on top of the generator, hence you need to lift the gas to that height.

d) Although back feeding your house can be done via a "Suicide power cord". It is dangerours and is illegal. There is a risk to you and to utility repair people. You can avoid having a transfer switch if you are prepared to have long extension cords snaking around your house and connect appliances directly to your generator.

I think the best solution for you will depend on who is in your familly. If you have older / younger (children) people who cannot move around portable units then a type 2 or type 3 is recomended. If you have younger people around who understand and are prepared to move about gasoline, and wheel abnout generators, then type 1 solution is a good way to go.

Warmest regards, Mike.

Reply to
sacstinkytiger

I recently bought a Honda EU2000i. After testing it, I put in some gas mixed with STA-BIL and then let it operate until it ran out of gas. About a month later, I added a little bit of mixed gas and tried to start it. It took at least 10 tries to start it, maybe more, and I was almost ready to give up.

I suppose the moral of the story is that generators that have been ran out of gas can be hard to start and one shouldn't give up trying to soon.

Reply to
mgkelson

It's fairly easy to store more gas than that. I store about 20 gallons, and once every month or so I pour 5 gallons into the pickup gas tank and take the can into town to refill with fresh gas. The gas is stored in the garden shed, away from the house.

I assume you wanted the generator running all the time to run the AC. If you shut the generator down after an hour, you can easily go for 2-3 hours before the heat builds up inside the house. At my house, power outages are a winter phenomenon, and the wood stove means electricity is not necessary for heat or cooking. It takes about an hour to heat a tank of water and take showers, and the refrigerator and freezer can run at the same time. Aladdin lamps, oil lamps and candles provide plenty of light, with the addition of a fluorescent light for reading and flashlights for moving around. 12 volt TV sets are cheap and common, 12 volt radios are even less expensive.

For long term power, like running a computer or TV set, the little 1200 watt 2-cycle generators will run about 4.5 hours on a gallon of gas, and they don't make as much noise as the big sets. 1200 watts is plenty to run most furnaces with 1/8 hp blower motors. Some people buy a GM alternator, hook it to a couple deep cycle batteries and an inverter, power it up with an old 3.5 hp lawnmower motor, and have silent power for low power applications late into the night.

The first mistake people make is buying huge generators. You don't have to be the power company. The second mistake people make is trying to run the generator continuously. Four hours of power a day should be plenty, unless you have to run a furnace to keep from freezing to death. If the weather is too hot for you, go sit in the bathtub and read a book. Running AC off of a generator is not practical. It takes too much power, which, as you discovered, translates to too much fuel.

Reply to
Larry Caldwell

A whole house transfer switch only has one switch to isolate the house circuit. Most people don't have large enough generators to run the whole house, so some circuits have to be turned off to manage the load.

$300 will buy you a nice, fancy, automatic transfer switch designed to work automatically with a standby power generator. I bought a 16- circuit, 60 amp panel for $110 that will handle the largest generator I am ever likely to have. I just need to flip one switch and turn off some breakers to load manage, when it is hooked to my 4400 watt generator.

I have a small tractor that would power a 16 kw PTO generator, which works out to 67 amps at full output. From my experiences in power outages, that amount of power would be unnecessary. My wife has commented on how effortless it is to do without power in this house, which has heat, water and light without electricity. We usually don't even bother to hook the generator up until the second day of an outage.

Reply to
Larry Caldwell

I bought a no-name B&S powered 4400 watt continuous/5000 watt surge reconditioned generator from Harbor Freight in 1998 for $279. I got a

60 amp 16-circuit sub-panel style transfer switch from the same place for $110, and paid an electrician $200 to wire it in, moving all the critical circuits to the transfer panel. With the expense of buying a few breakers, the total price came to about $650. It has run me through 3 extended outages, and the generator still fires off on the second pull. I run it empty, change the oil, fog the cylinder, bag the exhaust, wrap the whole thing in and industrial plastic bag with 5 pounds of silica gel, and stick it back in its shipping carton. It still looks and runs like new after 8 years.

It is not necessary to spend a fortune to have emergency power.

Reply to
Larry Caldwell

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