Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The
pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns
on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets
worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991.
Thanks in advance for the help.
> Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder
Your toilet is probably 5 gallons per flush.
If withdrawing 5 gallons from your bladder tank is sufficient to cause
it's pressure to drop below 40 psig, then the pump will come on every
time the toilet is flushed.
You may want to consider installing a much larger bladder tank. The
bigger your tank, the less frequently your sump pump will come on, but
the longer it will run each time it does come on.
I think she means a well pump. That's a cylindrical pump that goes
right down the water well. But it's still underwater, so it's just
another kind of submersible pump.
If the tank were waterlogged, then the diphragm in the tank is
torn. So, once you emptied the water out of the tank, the air pressure
on the air side of the diaphragm would also leak out. So, why would you
measure 38 psi? It would seem to me that with the tank empty and the
diaphragm torn, the pressure on both sides of the torn diaphragm will be
atmospheric pressure, wouldn't it?
There can be a pinhole leak that takes a long time to lose a significant
amount of air so that if re-establish a new working pressure/volume one
can often get by for quite some time.
Or, of course, could have lost air to atmosphere thru a leak Schroeder
valve and the bladder/diaphragm is fine...
When I was a kid back on the family farm, we got our water from a
natural spring that had been dug out and turned into a 2,000 gal
reservoir with a little pump house built over it. The pump used to
pump water to the house 100 yards away was a long cylindrical well
pump. Perhaps my father used such a pump designed for a deep well
because the water had to come up out of gully where the spring was and
on to the house which was some distance away. There was a pressurized
tank in the basement and as I remember, a toilet flush could start the
pump running but those were the older (wasteful) toilets that actually
flushed the contents down to the septic tank with one flush. It's been
40 years since I've seen it so my experience is a bit out of date but
from what I've seen in other homes over the years, the basic well pump
installations are all the same. ^_^
The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after
turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2
lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case.
See if that will extend the life of the tank a little while -- but a new
tank is in your future sooner rather than later.
+1 on the "waterlogged". Here's a bit more detail on hot to correct.
1) Shut power to pump
2) Open a "lowest" sink or hose valve and drain tank completely.
Leave valve open.
3) Add air pressure to you tank until you are at 38 psi.
4) Close the valve opened in (2) above.
5) Turn on pump.
If the problem happens again in less than a year or two, you will need
a new pressure tank, but can get by for as long as you are willing to
repeat the above procedure. However that is not recommended as
frequent cycling of the pump shortens it's life.
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was
installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer
said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds.
This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime.
Should be 2-lb under the cut-in pressure -- which implies you're running
a 30-50 cycle; pretty common as well...
Which averages out to about a dozen yr/tank which is about what one can
expect on average -- it's quite possible OP can stretch the life of his
for several more years depending on the state it's currently in and
precisely where his leak is and how long it's been neglected in the
On Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:26:41 AM UTC-7, dpb wrote:
??? I have never heard of a tank going bad that fast and I have been mainin
tain my well and neighbors for a long, long time. My well was put in in th
e 80s and the tank is still alive and well. A tank failing in 6-7 years wo
uld have to be due to something in the water eating the tank or bladder.
I don't think the quality of tanks/diaphragms is what it used to be is a
large (the largest?) part of it -- the first on the new well here lasted
nearly 30 yr; the replacement of it was also long-lived but not as long
as that I'd guess; that was during the hiatus while was gone for 30-yr
in VA/TN. In the fifteen yr since we've been back we're now on the
third--counting the one that was failing when moved back...same batwell,
I think next time I'm just going back to the old straight tank and air
bubble over it -- sure, have to recharge occasionally but there's no
bladder/diaphragm to fail.
How much, if any, has to do w/ all the new EPA requirements on
manufacturing so that the rubber compounds aren't what they used to be
or how much is just seeing how cheaply they can be made I don't know,
but I'd surely not bet on any new tanks lasting nearly what the old ones
On Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:06:42 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
You shouldn't have to recharge it. Before the bladder type tanks,
the traditional ones for decades had simple self regulation
systems that added air in automatically if needed. It's just
that like everything else that after a long enough time they
would fail too and then the tank would water log.
On Monday, August 19, 2013 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
It's basically a widget that goes onto a fitting opening on
the side of the tank, about half up, ie at where the air level
should be. It has a float or similar inside it that reacts to
the water level. If the water level gets above the level
of the tank fitting, it triggers a valve in the widget to
open which is connected to the suction side of the pump.
That allows a small amount of air to get sucked in. Each
time the pump runs, that process works, until the air level
is back to the level of the widget.
if the link doesn't work, just google "water tank air control"
On Monday, August 19, 2013 4:25:55 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Yes, I guess I should have mentioned they only work on
jet pumps where you have the suction side of the pump
near the tank. Which is probably why you don't see them much
these days. Years ago, many wells were shallow. With a
submersible they can't be used.
On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well
at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that
had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft
or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump
can still be used down to 100ft or so, but submersibles are more
efficient. I haven't seen a residential potable water well put
in around here in a long time, so don't know what they are using
for those. But I've seen several irrigation wells at 50 ft or less
and they all use submersibles.
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.