Fishing wires in a condo

[sidwelle]

I have a condo and I want to run some Coax and twisted pair from the attic to the ground floor for service to a TV/Entertainment center.

Problem: The wall that I intend to run the wires down is 19' from ceiling t o floor continuous, and on the other side of the wall is the floor of one o f the bedrooms. I am pretty sure that since the wall is interior that the wall is hollow, but when I get to the floor joists of the bedroom, what can I expect to find ? The bedroom is standard 8' wood stud'ed walls probably with 2x4" across the top and bottom. My guess is that the floor joists are probably 2x10" with and end-cap that is either 1 or 2 2x10" w/1/2" plywood between for spacing.

Whats the best way to get the wires through this floor to the next wall sec tion below ?

[gfretwell]

You are going to run into a double top plate, a fire stop half way down, the sole plate, the floor, another double top plate etc. That is an interior wall. Exterior walls will have rim joists and insulation so it will be pretty much impossible to fish. The best you can hope for is that there is a chase around a plumbing stack or something. Otherwise look to see if you can fish through a closet and put in some surface raceway. YMMV depending on the floor plan and type of construction.

[Art Todesco]

There are long flexible drill bits. I have a 4' one, however, I think they make them even longer. You might have to make a small hole in the drywall and then repatch.

[gfretwell]

Those flexibits have a bad habit of coming out where you don't want them to ;-(

When it comes to drywall a big hole is usually easier to patch than a small one (stud to stud). If it is textured, you may really have a hard time matching the texture.

[sidwelle]

ic to the ground floor for service to a TV/Entertainment center.

g to floor continuous, and on the other side of the wall is the floor of on e of the bedrooms. I am pretty sure that since the wall is interior that t he wall is hollow, but when I get to the floor joists of the bedroom, what can I expect to find ? The bedroom is standard 8' wood stud'ed walls proba bly with 2x4" across the top and bottom. My guess is that the floor joists are probably 2x10" with and end-cap that is either 1 or 2 2x10" w/1/2" plyw ood between for spacing.

section below ?

Yes, I most of that. I would like to have pipe-chase, but its on the other side of the condo and there would be little or now way to get my cables to the other side of the unit.

My plan was to drill a hole down through the top plates and then cut a hole in the wall in the bedroom to drill another hole down through to sole plat e and the floor. What I didn't know what how many Rim Joists I would find or how they would be configured. From the pics I find on-line, if there was a Rim-Joist, there would be only 1 opposite away from the bedroom ? Don't know if there is a fire stop, hadn't thought of that. The local code does not even call for sprinklers, do I may just have to drill and see.

Is the fire-stop just some special cocking to seal the crack, or a special material that is like a block of wood halfway down ?

Didn't think this was going to be easy, but I am tired of looking at the wi res taped to the wall for 5 years. Thanks.

[John G]

c to the ground floor for service to a TV/Entertainment center.

to floor continuous, and on the other side of the wall is the floor of one of the bedrooms. I am pretty sure that since the wall is interior that th e wall is hollow, but when I get to the floor joists of the bedroom, what c an I expect to find ? The bedroom is standard 8' wood stud'ed walls probab ly with 2x4" across the top and bottom. My guess is that the floor joists a re probably 2x10" with and end-cap that is either 1 or 2 2x10" w/1/2" plywo od between for spacing.

ection below ?

*Cut a hole in the ceiling above your final destination (Using my 45 degree technique). The hole in the ceiling should give you a peek as to any obst acles in the way. Condo floors and ceilings tend to be loaded with utilitie s and it is easy to drill into something. You may find that the floor jois ts are actually trusses instead of solid wood. They are used to faciltate the installation of ducts and pipes. The trusses also make it easy to fish wires across the ceiling. If you have clearance in the ceiling below, cut a hole in the wall at the floor above a few inches above the baseboard mol ding big enough to get a drill and drill bit it in. You will need to drill twice. One hole through the top of the truss and wall plate and one throu gh the bottom of the truss or support plate. Sometimes with my angle drill and a short auger bit I am able to drill down from the hole in the ceiling into the wall below, thus having one less hole to patch. If this is a bea ring wall it may be solid wood where you want to drill down to. Condos are tricky because there is structure in place for the entire building. It is best to do some exploratory surguey first to see what you are up against.

One thing that you may find is that 19' wall may have additional blocking i n it for firestops and to keep the studs from bending. If so you will need to notch around them.

I usually measure the thickness of the floor at the stairs to determine if trusses are used. If the floor thickness is 12" or less it could be solid. If it is thicker, like around 15" then you have trusses.

My 45 degree technique is simply cutting the hole in the drywall at a 45 de gree angle. This way the drywall can be buttered with joint compound and t he piece can be put back in where it came from without any taping. I butte r both the wall and the piece to bring it out to nearly even with the origi nal wall. Let the joint compound dry overnight and skim coat it the next d ay.

John Grabowski

[gfretwell]

The fire stop is just a 2x4 across the stud bay, at 4'. They call it a fire stop but I imagine the real reason is so they can run the drywall horizontally and have something to nail the seam into. A quick scan with a stud finder or just some tapping will tell you.

I still think I would look for a better way than trying to do all of this fishing. The problem is you might "almost" make it and end up with one obstacle you can't get around.

[Samuel]

I had a similar problem and ended up routing between 3 floors through some closets. The nice thing about cutting access holes in a closet is that the quality of the drywall repair is not critical and you needn't be too fussy about matching paint colors.

[sidwelle]

What are your thoughts on installing a 1.25" plastic conduit to make it easier to pull/replace wires in the future ?

[micky]

I have a 6' one. Do you want to see it?

If he's good at smoothing the patch and matching the paint.

I'd go with GFr. Isn't there bound to be some spare space where the heating duct goes from the basement to above the second story floor? Not above the second story, but just above its floor, but the chase will continue all the way to the attic. (Don't fall in.)

I had at least a half-square foot of empty space, but I found that the floor between the first and second floor was still there. Maybe there was space right next to the heating duct, but I couldn't see it.

Fortunately I had that 6' drill, and a non-flexible 1 foot extension, and I lay on the attic floor with my arm down and was able to reach 8 feet to drill a hole through that board. (I can't imagine the hole is's a violation of anything.)

By using cables/wires more than 20 feet long, I was able to tape other wires to the middle of the first wire and pull second and third wires up to, for AC, phone**, cable tv going up, cable tv going back down from the cable box to the other tv's, burglar alarm sirens, burglar alarm sensor for the back bedroom.

And I still left a couple wires out -- plan ahead -- and I don't think I left a traveler string or wire, plus there might not be much room in that hole anymore.

**The previous owner had sheetrocked over the phone jack.

[sidwelle]

attic to the ground floor for service to a TV/Entertainment center.

ling to floor continuous, and on the other side of the wall is the floor of one of the bedrooms. I am pretty sure that since the wall is interior tha t the wall is hollow, but when I get to the floor joists of the bedroom, wh at can I expect to find ? The bedroom is standard 8' wood stud'ed walls pr obably with 2x4" across the top and bottom. My guess is that the floor jois ts are probably 2x10" with and end-cap that is either 1 or 2 2x10" w/1/2" p lywood between for spacing.

ll section below ?

/* Isn't there bound to be some spare space where the heating duct goes from the basement to above the second story floor? */

Probably is, but then I'm on the other side of the condo, and I'm on concre te slab. If I had a basement, it would be different and that would be idea l. I have not problem patching holes, lots of experience. What is GFr. ?

[philoÂÂ]

I see a lot of contractors just run the wire /outside/ the house.It sure is any easy solution but you'd want to do it on a side of the house not easily visible.

[rbowman]

I've always been fond of Wiremold raceway but then I'm not Martha Stewart when it comes to home decor. It's a lot easier than finding out someone was trying to get rid of scrap 2x4's and was extra generous with the firestops.

You still gave to punch through the floors but that's doable with a little care.

[gfretwell]

Condo commanders get pretty funny about anything outside your unit.

[clare]

I made a 12 foot drill in 4 3 ft sections that thread together - made out of 1/" water pipe. I used a forstner bit on the end.

[gfretwell]

It might be worth investigating this chase anyway. If the floor joists go all the way across you might be able to fish them.

Do you know the old chain trick? When you are fishing, drop your string with couple of feet of steel ball chain on the end. Then fish at the other end with a magnet. The rare earth magnet from a bad hard drive is perfect. If you cut away the extra metal, it will even fit through the 1/2" knock out in an electrical box. This one is on a piece of 10ga solid copper wire but the ear was not cut off yet

Me?

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, I just wonder if there is wireless solution. I don't know what OP is trying to do.

[philoÂÂ]

Yep, it may not get approval.

One reason I'll never live in a condo... nothing I do would ever get approved.

[Qwerty Uiop]

Great idea! If you got the wall open and can add spare conduit with relative ease, go for it.

And with new construction, running spare conduit between attic and basement or attic to utility room should be mandatory building code.

[sidwelle]

I have used flex stuff from HomeDepot before, works pretty well. but not this long of a run and through floors.

Wireless: I program for a living, and anytime I have the option of hardwired connection over a wireless, I always make sure Im wired!

HardDrive Magnets: great idea. They also make great shelf mounts for the sides of filing cabinets (or anything steal), just be careful, they stick so hard that if you slide the shelf, it takes paint with it!