EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

I have to agree with you.

Notice what Winterkorn said, which was that he wasn't aware, "to his knowledge", that he cheated. Hmmmm...

And Clinton didn't have sexual relations with that woman either.

Reply to
Winston_Smith
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You have it backwards and contradict yourself in your own statement. If it's true that more fuel to the engine lowers emissions, then that would be what they would have to do all the time, not just when it's being tested and that would give lower MPG.

Reply to
trader_4

Backwards.

Less fuel = hotter burn in the combustion chamber = higher NOx numbers It shows up as vehicles that get better EPA mileage numbers than the sticker says because they are burning less fuel.

To correct the issue they need to increase the fuel to the engine to cool the combustion temperatures.

The end result will be that the EPA MPG numbers will be closer to reality because the engine is now using the fuel to keep the NOx numbers down. The only "bad" side effect will be that the particulate trap and the NOx catalyst will need to burn more often to regenerate.

OR VW could come up with a DEF retrofit to drop the NOx numbers.

Reply to
Steve W.

Remember we are talking DIESEL here. The more fuel, the hotter the burn. Same is true of Gasoline, but only to a point. The point doesn't come in to play with a compression ignition engine

Are their DEF vehicles included in the "scam" -(Tourag, T7 and Passat) TDI

Reply to
clare

"Bob F" wrote in mu202h$knp$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

It was ironic.

Reply to
Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen

What I don't understand is that VW had to submit test results from a (supposedly) independent company in Europe to get certified in Europe for the 11 million cars that might be affected.

They apparently contracted that job out to Applus Idiada of Spain.

Has anyone any idea how Applus Idiada verified the wrong numbers?

Reply to
Winston_Smith

Was the software really all that "sophisticated"?

The NY Times said it was "sophisticated".

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I think it was just brazen.

Reply to
JJ

Apparently cheating is rather common.

Volkswagen Test Rigging Follows a Long Auto Industry Pattern By DANNY HAKIM and HIROKO TABUCHISEPT. 23, 2015

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Reply to
Mitch Kaufmann

One likely way would be that they also did it via a dyno test. It's certainly easier and more practical, consistent, than driving on roads.

Reply to
trader_4

snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

I am glad you challenged me! I was thinking of the VW/Chrysler plant in PA. I was mistaken in ownership. Thank you.

Reply to
Tekkie®

Like AMC, Chrysler DID buy some engines from VW back around then - the Omni-Horizon originally used a VAG supplied engine (Audi fox?) a bit bigger than the rabbit engine at the time - and I believe AMC used basically the same engine in the early 4 cyl Spirit.

Reply to
clare

Criminal prosecution of those who knowingly did this would be fine. But fining the car company to make you feel good is stupid. It would hurt tens of thousands of innocent people who had nothing to do with this. That's why the way Obama and his corrupt justice department handled the banking crisis was so stupid. None of teh guilty went to jail so none of the people responsible suffered at all. But with the big fines lots of people who had nothing to do with the wrongdoing get screwed financially, employees in branches wound up laid off, stockholders lost money, pension funds lost money, etc, etc.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

Have you actually seen any factual data that they were providing more fuel? From the little bit of decent info I've seen it looked more like they were trying to extend the life of some "filter" by turning the filter "off" and just letting the stuff fly out the tailpipe.

some info here..

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Reply to
Ashton Crusher

Why would it be difficult to run these test on the road? Sure the equipment might cost several thousand but that's chickenfeed for this kind of study.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

I didn't say it was difficult, just that it's easier to run a test on the dyno. And it's a controlled repeatable environment. Driving on the highway 500 miles today could be under different conditions than tomorrow, that you have no control over, ie traffic backed up, slower speeds, more accelerating, de-accelerating, etc.

Reply to
trader_4

Which is exactly the situation you WANT to find out about... How does the system, which seems to be working in the "lab" actually work in the real world. Sure there's more variability, so what. The point of emissions controls isn't to keep the soot off the walls of the "lab" it's to keep the soot out of the atmosphere out in the real world.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

The scam was discovered by actual road tests. It is also possible the test units were rigged when sent for testing. If it was dyno, it would have passed. I'm sure there will be a lot of road testing done to verify what others are doing.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Winterkorn already fell on his sword. What's ironic is Winterkorn won the pissing contest with Piëch but I've got a feeling Piëch knows more about the gaming.

Reply to
rbowman

I think we're getting off track here. The post I replied to, I believe it was about VW having sent the cars to some outside lab to be tested and they passed. Someone questioned how that could be. I simply said probably because that outside lab tested it the same way, on the dyno. Since presumably VW didn't want to "find out about it", it would seem highly likely that they made sure they understood how that lab was going to do the test.

How does

I would have to disagree. The point of the emissions test is to pass whatever the standards are, the test methods, as defined by EPA. If the EPA says running it on the dyno it has to put out no more than X, Y, Z, then that's what counts. They shouldn't be cheating on the test, but designing it to meet the EPA reqts and the EPA required testes is what counts.

Reply to
trader_4

I had a smog check this morning on a 2007 Camry. The shop had a new machine for newer vehicles. Since September 2013, 2000 and newer vehicles no longer get tested on the dynamometer and no longer get a probe shoved up their tailpipe. The whole test is done via the OBD-II port (as well as a visual inspection).

For diesel vehicles you can see the details here:

So clearly VW was not just looking at wheel rotation, they probably turned on the emission controls whenever they detected something reading the sensors. I wonder if an ELM327 transceiver or a Progressive "Snapshot" would have any effect.

Reply to
sms

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